Thomas Cook Fleet Reduction
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where we are, not where we were.
MYT had over 35 aircraft 10 years ago, and whatever TCX were then called I guess they were not far behind. Now together they will have less than 30 next year. They are still mostly running the same old aircraft so the reduction is not due to larger types.
If the holiday company started a new charter airline today they could cut costs by at least 35%. FTL, salary linked to productivity, and new and serviceable aircraft that departed on time would all contribute.
No union to look after the 'good old boys' at the expense of the rest and no manager 50k plus bonuses would also help. Managing to trigger the bonus never helped airlines linked to holiday companies.
Nobody is blaming anybody, it is just the way it is now and unless significant moves are made in the right direction it will not be viable to continue with in house airlines.
As for quality of the product, please do use your search engine! Easy and Ryan totally trounce TCX in age of fleet, quality of product, on time performance and value. Customers of TC it seems do not look forward to flights with TCX.
If the holiday company started a new charter airline today they could cut costs by at least 35%. FTL, salary linked to productivity, and new and serviceable aircraft that departed on time would all contribute.
No union to look after the 'good old boys' at the expense of the rest and no manager 50k plus bonuses would also help. Managing to trigger the bonus never helped airlines linked to holiday companies.
Nobody is blaming anybody, it is just the way it is now and unless significant moves are made in the right direction it will not be viable to continue with in house airlines.
As for quality of the product, please do use your search engine! Easy and Ryan totally trounce TCX in age of fleet, quality of product, on time performance and value. Customers of TC it seems do not look forward to flights with TCX.
No union to look after the 'good old boys' at the expense of the rest and no manager 50k plus bonuses would also help. Managing to trigger the bonus never helped airlines linked to holiday companies.
All of which questions the validity of the rest of your post. As to the title of your latest work of fiction, what colour is the sky where you are?
Last edited by beardy; 30th Oct 2012 at 08:57.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: by the fire
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zoarath
Nail, head, miss! In-house airlines provide a majority percentage of a tour group's lift, getting their customers to their holidays. Changing TCX for a newer model doesn't alter the fact that due to rubbish commercial decisions by the tour operator, less lift is now required - hence a smaller airline. The locos probably wouldn't end up wanting too much of their summer capacity taken up with other people's passengers because the work is so seasonal and makes the retention of the aircraft and crews over the winter a major headache.
For tour companies that wish to keep control of their product from booking until the customer walks out of the arrival terminal at their home airport there is no better way to go than your own airline. You only need to look at the furore surrounding the recent "Monarch" incident and subsequent bad press to see that flagging out if not done carefully can lead to worse publicity as it is seen as endangering people to save cost whether such criticism is justified or not.
You'd be better drawing parallels between MYT and the current mess at TCX by considering how the banks did the same recapitalisation with MYT as they are now and look how that ended. Where is the large tour operator to buy the remnants of TCX? TUI probably wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - not enough margin for them.
Nail, head, miss! In-house airlines provide a majority percentage of a tour group's lift, getting their customers to their holidays. Changing TCX for a newer model doesn't alter the fact that due to rubbish commercial decisions by the tour operator, less lift is now required - hence a smaller airline. The locos probably wouldn't end up wanting too much of their summer capacity taken up with other people's passengers because the work is so seasonal and makes the retention of the aircraft and crews over the winter a major headache.
For tour companies that wish to keep control of their product from booking until the customer walks out of the arrival terminal at their home airport there is no better way to go than your own airline. You only need to look at the furore surrounding the recent "Monarch" incident and subsequent bad press to see that flagging out if not done carefully can lead to worse publicity as it is seen as endangering people to save cost whether such criticism is justified or not.
You'd be better drawing parallels between MYT and the current mess at TCX by considering how the banks did the same recapitalisation with MYT as they are now and look how that ended. Where is the large tour operator to buy the remnants of TCX? TUI probably wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - not enough margin for them.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South East
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zoarath, have you the slightest notion of what c**p you're talking? The TCX CC have already invested a great deal of blood sweat and tears in saving the jobs of several pilots in the previous round of nastiness. Now they're having to do it again. At no time in either process has anyone at TCX accused them of looking after the "good old boys".
Plumbum Pendular
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Avionics Bay
Age: 55
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"looking after the "good old boys"" sounds like a euphemism for seniority which is the accepted industry practice.
Seniority is the way the industry works, rightly or wrongly, if you don't like it then you shouldn't have got into the industry.
Seniority is the way the industry works, rightly or wrongly, if you don't like it then you shouldn't have got into the industry.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in the middle of the TCX seniority list and was affected by downsizing a year ago and will be again this time.
Not once have I ever thought that our BALPA reps were looking after themselves or any other "Good Old Boys" ahead of the rest of the membership (or the non-members, who should be grateful for the efforts and financial contributions of their peers).
I am thankful that I'm in a Company where we Pilots have collective representation; something to provide a counterweight to the management.
Not once have I ever thought that our BALPA reps were looking after themselves or any other "Good Old Boys" ahead of the rest of the membership (or the non-members, who should be grateful for the efforts and financial contributions of their peers).
I am thankful that I'm in a Company where we Pilots have collective representation; something to provide a counterweight to the management.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fantom,
Love the name, by the way,......lot of whiners at TCX who do not realise how much BALPA have done for them.
When challenged invariably come up with a pathetic excuse as to why they are not a member.
Never had a solid argument that stands up with reasoned discussion.
I have often said on my night DLM,s ... If you are not happy then please make a personel protest and give back all your BALPA negotiated pay rises over the last few years to charity
They go quiet.
Big Battles ahead at TCX.
Love the name, by the way,......lot of whiners at TCX who do not realise how much BALPA have done for them.
When challenged invariably come up with a pathetic excuse as to why they are not a member.
Never had a solid argument that stands up with reasoned discussion.
I have often said on my night DLM,s ... If you are not happy then please make a personel protest and give back all your BALPA negotiated pay rises over the last few years to charity
They go quiet.
Big Battles ahead at TCX.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Manchester
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have often said on my night DLM,s ... If you are not happy then please make a personel protest and give back all your BALPA negotiated pay rises over the last few years to charity.
They go quiet.
They go quiet.
Last edited by chocolateracer; 5th Nov 2012 at 07:28.
Chocalateracer
Unintentional irony at its finest!
When one is trying to object to "Union Bully boy tactics" shouldnt your reply have been a little more concillatory than "Try that tactic with me.....( and I'll smash your face in!)"
Playground tactics will not win the fight here.
Unintentional irony at its finest!
When one is trying to object to "Union Bully boy tactics" shouldnt your reply have been a little more concillatory than "Try that tactic with me.....( and I'll smash your face in!)"
Playground tactics will not win the fight here.
Last edited by charlies angel; 5th Nov 2012 at 08:21.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could be classed a union bully boy tactics at worst
Try that tactic with me and you'll be very quiet quite quickly.
And anyway, how can pointing out facts re Balpa membership be seen as bullying, grow up for goodness sake boy!
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Manchester
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow!!! Wrong end of the stick boys!!! I like how you immediately assume that! No....go quiet because I won't engage in a conversation with a BALPA preacher. I'm a member, and proud to be so. I just choose to leave it at that. The reason is simple. It's because if you outwardly show any negative signs towards BALPA and you're unlucky to be flying with a BALPA faithful the conversation only goes one way. I don't like that as I find it unnesscary. So I choose to remain silient, hence my comment. Relax boys!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 35ft agl- Just north of 26L threshold, LGW
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peter,
We've had more Balpa negotiated pay rises than other union or non-union negotiated rises over the last 4 years. No?
Still got the fair weather non-members circulating in TCX. A number of guys have re-joined recently in fear of remaining 'in the dark' with stuff. That's the thing that grinds with me about most moaning non-members: they complain they don't get informed and updated with discussions and the soon to be negotiations. Simple- sign up. The Balpa website is great.
We've had more Balpa negotiated pay rises than other union or non-union negotiated rises over the last 4 years. No?
Still got the fair weather non-members circulating in TCX. A number of guys have re-joined recently in fear of remaining 'in the dark' with stuff. That's the thing that grinds with me about most moaning non-members: they complain they don't get informed and updated with discussions and the soon to be negotiations. Simple- sign up. The Balpa website is great.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TCX's airline business is now in material decline.
If the deal with EZY works well, why wouldn't they seek growth from type of operation that rather than the massive hastle of running an airline operation (on top of everything else within TCX).
The Sale & Leaseback of the Boeings suggests however that the airline business will remain for the medium term, but TCX came close to failure and therefore change is required by the city. It would be very easy for management to say that the move away from hard assets (shops/airline etc.) is the sure way to gold.
If nothing else, it buys them a few years.
If the deal with EZY works well, why wouldn't they seek growth from type of operation that rather than the massive hastle of running an airline operation (on top of everything else within TCX).
The Sale & Leaseback of the Boeings suggests however that the airline business will remain for the medium term, but TCX came close to failure and therefore change is required by the city. It would be very easy for management to say that the move away from hard assets (shops/airline etc.) is the sure way to gold.
If nothing else, it buys them a few years.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: overseas....
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many company council balpa members got demoted?.
Think joining date seniority list....think "new" merger seniority list.....it helped some...didnt it?
Voted with my feet.
Think joining date seniority list....think "new" merger seniority list.....it helped some...didnt it?
Voted with my feet.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are currently 22 Reserve Captains on the seniority list. I believe that they are all in their base of choice and the Reserve Captain pay scale was negotiated by BALPA.
BALPA will never be able to please all of the people all of the time. Most will be pro, understandably, some will be anti. It's called democracy.
BALPA will never be able to please all of the people all of the time. Most will be pro, understandably, some will be anti. It's called democracy.
