Air Uganda, crew forgot to set flaps?
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Slightly off-topic, but this seems as good a time and place as any to ask a question that I've wondered about for a while. On take off in an MD-8x series aircraft, there seems to be a point after the engines have spooled up when the engine note suddenly changes - it's audible 42s into this video. What is it that's going on that causes this to happen?
I pretty much agree with you fox niner but I can imagine some countries ( I'm thinking Asia and Africa ) where the actual culture of the country would mean that pilot didn't even know they were in a rubbish airline. They get good grades at school or more likely have the right surname, and then get into a national carrier that is corrupt and recurrent simulator sessions are a complete sham. But I agree in most cases, there is no excuse for not setting flap. especially if you are the Captain and therefore managing the tempo and priorities of the flight.
Sky pilot
If I remember correctly the air con switches off and doesn't come back on to above 500ft?
Take off performance up to and including 2nd segment in the event of an engine failure.
If I remember correctly the air con switches off and doesn't come back on to above 500ft?
Take off performance up to and including 2nd segment in the event of an engine failure.
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I pretty much agree with you fox niner but I can imagine some countries ( I'm thinking Asia and Africa ) where the actual culture of the country would mean that pilot didn't even know they were in a rubbish airline.
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The SLF just care about cheap tix
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... a 727, Delta, in DFW, that didn't lower flaps on takeoff ...
Last edited by hamil; 29th Aug 2012 at 11:00.
Defecto , I don't think it's junk, that's why I say it 
I'm not sure why you or anyone would be offended by it, it's just life, some countries ( and therefore some airlines) have major problems with corruption and safety is one of the first casualties. I mentioned Asia and Africa because I have lived in both those places while flying. Why does it upset you that I mentioned it? Anyway, don't get too worried, it was just an opinion, have a fun day , Framer
I'm not sure why you or anyone would be offended by it, it's just life, some countries ( and therefore some airlines) have major problems with corruption and safety is one of the first casualties. I mentioned Asia and Africa because I have lived in both those places while flying. Why does it upset you that I mentioned it? Anyway, don't get too worried, it was just an opinion, have a fun day , Framer
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@DX WOMBAT
Offensive? Maybe....
Couple years ago there was one of these candid camera shows on tv. They had a 737 (GERMANIA) with no seats (maintenance event, btw) instead on the ceiling a pair of handrails was installed, like in a bus.
They offered a refund of 25 Euros to do the two hour trip. Out of about 100 pax only 5 denied.
Offensive? Maybe....
Couple years ago there was one of these candid camera shows on tv. They had a 737 (GERMANIA) with no seats (maintenance event, btw) instead on the ceiling a pair of handrails was installed, like in a bus.
They offered a refund of 25 Euros to do the two hour trip. Out of about 100 pax only 5 denied.
At least 2 DC-9/MD-80 series crashed because of it ... NWA in Detroit and Spanair in Madrid ... by the way, in both cases the TO warning system didn't work.
Whilst I appreciate why that system is in place, I find it hard to excuse professional pilots not properly performing checklists in multi crew aircraft. I am glad to see that whatever alerted the crew in the case under discussion go them to lower the flaps, but the part that gets me is: did these gents actually complete the take off checklist before beginning take off roll?
If not, there is an issue that needs to be addressed here.
Cockpit discipline.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 29th Aug 2012 at 13:07.
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that tone chance around 42 seconds heard in this video is when the autothrottle switch is engaged.
in this video you can break down the throttle sequence in pieces.
from when the video starts, the throttle position is in IDLE.
then at the first chance of pitch, the pf moves the throttles from IDLE to Flight idle to get the initial spool up.
there after he slowly starts to increase throttle position to get to EPR 40% (where you stabelize engines and turn on autothrottle), but here in this range he received the Takeoff warning stating: FLAPS. letting you know that your flaps/slats are not in the correct position. they quickly put the flaps, noticing the CAWS (Central Aural Warning System) went silent; takeoff config is good, and then proceeded with autothrottle to takeoff power.
from what i see in this video, that the crew that day did miss several boeing recommendations. on taxi out, they were supposed to set flaps. in the taxi out checklist they should confirm flaps by doing a takeoff config test, and the before take off checklist as well with a visual gauge check.
they probably didn't do ANY checklist on this particular flight.
Atleast not an "post-spanair crash md80 checklist".
in this video you can break down the throttle sequence in pieces.
from when the video starts, the throttle position is in IDLE.
then at the first chance of pitch, the pf moves the throttles from IDLE to Flight idle to get the initial spool up.
there after he slowly starts to increase throttle position to get to EPR 40% (where you stabelize engines and turn on autothrottle), but here in this range he received the Takeoff warning stating: FLAPS. letting you know that your flaps/slats are not in the correct position. they quickly put the flaps, noticing the CAWS (Central Aural Warning System) went silent; takeoff config is good, and then proceeded with autothrottle to takeoff power.
from what i see in this video, that the crew that day did miss several boeing recommendations. on taxi out, they were supposed to set flaps. in the taxi out checklist they should confirm flaps by doing a takeoff config test, and the before take off checklist as well with a visual gauge check.
they probably didn't do ANY checklist on this particular flight.
Atleast not an "post-spanair crash md80 checklist".
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At least 2 DC-9/MD-80 series crashed because of it ... NWA in Detroit and Spanair in Madrid ... by the way, in both cases the TO warning system didn't work
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This is incorrect.
From Wiki:
From Wiki:
The NTSB probable cause statement is as follows: "The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the accident was the flightcrew's failure to use the taxi checklist to ensure the flaps and slats were extended for takeoff. Contributing to the accident was the absence of electrical power to the airplane takeoff warning system which thus did not warn the flightcrew that the airplane was not configured properly for takeoff. The reason for the absence of electrical power could not be determined."
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BS
Nice ones, framer and Hetfield. Two truthful statements attracting impassioned politically-correct nonsense responses. The world has many people who cannot bear to hear the truth if it is remotely uncomfortable to them. (My airline management contains such individuals, who live in a fantasy world exemplified by the Emperor's New Clothes.
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If I recall, in the case of NWA at Detroit the TO config warning did sound, but this still didn't trigger the crew to the non deployment of F&S.
However, I suppose in NBO it saved the day ... fortunately.
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Flaps overrated?
Not relevant to current passenger jets, but if you read the book "Thirty Seconds over Tokyo" by Ted Lawson (who was a pilot on the Doolittle raid of WWII) he forgot to set the flaps of his B-25 while taking off from the Hornet. Only realized it when he put his hand down after takeoff to raise the flaps.
Pretty amazing that you had a medium bomber that was both very heavily loaded and never designed to take off from a carrier (no catapults in those days), that was still able to get into the air without flaps.
Pretty amazing that you had a medium bomber that was both very heavily loaded and never designed to take off from a carrier (no catapults in those days), that was still able to get into the air without flaps.
SeenItAll That was a good flying story they were lucky for the prop slipstream that's for sure...
while I don't think they should be sacked retrained definitely...but this is such fundemental airmanship that I feel it's like being trained on when to tie your shoes....and if it was company culture, training or SOPS then retraining may be futile...the captain should definitely switch seats---at the very least
while I don't think they should be sacked retrained definitely...but this is such fundemental airmanship that I feel it's like being trained on when to tie your shoes....and if it was company culture, training or SOPS then retraining may be futile...the captain should definitely switch seats---at the very least
and if it was company culture, training or SOPS then retraining may be futile...the captain should definitely switch seats---at the very least
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DX wombat, I don't know why you're getting so hot under the colar. I too am not led by price and I too am very selective about who I fly with. Nevertheless, I think it's a fair statement to suggest that most (not all) passengers flying LCC and or cowboy outfits are only looking for the cheapest deals.