4 Ryanair aircraft declare fuel emergency at same time
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Unfortunately there are quite a few people (including on here) who detest Ryanair.
They will believe anything negative irrespective of the source.
Last edited by His dudeness; 12th May 2013 at 08:57.
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You can detest an airline for many reasons. But saying that it is unsafe is something different , especially where it is not sustained by facts .
In my line of job ( ATC) you see around the world different management styles and structures .Some management rule by fear and sanctions, if one make a single mistake he is punished .Controllers often hate management. But does it means unsafe operations ? Not really.
Some other management styles have an open , just culture, no fear of reporting mistakes , can be unionized, or even self regulating, working with management hand in hand, etc.. . Are they much safer ? Not really . At least the incidents facts and figures show no real differences. I suspect the same is valid in many other safety related industries.
You can probably detest Ryanair for many reasons ( I myself avoid using them because I do not like the way they treat me as a pax, and the constant bravado of his CEO against controllers ) but claiming that Ryanair is unsafe is not what I would do and not what I have seen. (so far)
In my line of job ( ATC) you see around the world different management styles and structures .Some management rule by fear and sanctions, if one make a single mistake he is punished .Controllers often hate management. But does it means unsafe operations ? Not really.
Some other management styles have an open , just culture, no fear of reporting mistakes , can be unionized, or even self regulating, working with management hand in hand, etc.. . Are they much safer ? Not really . At least the incidents facts and figures show no real differences. I suspect the same is valid in many other safety related industries.
You can probably detest Ryanair for many reasons ( I myself avoid using them because I do not like the way they treat me as a pax, and the constant bravado of his CEO against controllers ) but claiming that Ryanair is unsafe is not what I would do and not what I have seen. (so far)
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The letter of apology seems to be a mix of an apology with PR. Personally I don't think it helps build good customer relations or alleviate safety concerns. More it draws attention to such issues and creates doubt where doubt didn't exist. Much as I admire the success of the airline they appear to have to spend ever increasing amounts of money fighting fire with fire and it really shouldn't be that way.
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But saying that it is unsafe is something different , especially where it is not sustained by facts
Is safety an absolute measured only in fatal accidents or does safety also encompass incidents and other factors?
Is flying with an airline (and I am not finger pointing any particular one here) that has say an extremely poor "culture" unsafe or just more risky or none of the above.
Where is the dividing line?
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I agree with Sober Lark. I honestly don't see how these 'apologies' help Ryanair's case at all. Whether or not these individuals told lies about Ryanair surely the whole point is to question why there is such an overwhelming negative attitude to Ryanair from governments, media and down to the average passenger?
We all know the answer of course.
To the Ryanair person or persons assigned to monitor this and other threads for negative comments about your employer. Do you honestly think you've scored a victory for truth and justice? It doesn't look that way.
Maybe your time would be better spent seeking ways to rehabilitate Ryanair's image and thus increase profitability further. Or is that too difficult an idea to comprehend?
As an Irishman, I've been to foreign airports and seen a line up of aircraft sporting Irish flags. I should be proud to see that but in general I mostly feel embarrassed that Ryanair is Irish. Sad state of affairs.
I can't help feeling that Tony Ryan would not have been comfortable with this image of his airline.
We all know the answer of course.
To the Ryanair person or persons assigned to monitor this and other threads for negative comments about your employer. Do you honestly think you've scored a victory for truth and justice? It doesn't look that way.
Maybe your time would be better spent seeking ways to rehabilitate Ryanair's image and thus increase profitability further. Or is that too difficult an idea to comprehend?
As an Irishman, I've been to foreign airports and seen a line up of aircraft sporting Irish flags. I should be proud to see that but in general I mostly feel embarrassed that Ryanair is Irish. Sad state of affairs.
I can't help feeling that Tony Ryan would not have been comfortable with this image of his airline.
Last edited by bluecode; 13th May 2013 at 12:08.
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bluecode
"why there is such an overwhelming negative attitude to Ryanair from governments, media and down to the average passenger?"
Bull****. So one has suddenly become respectful of politicians and journos! Ho ho.
Who are these average passengers? Someone must have spent a long time interviewing them, more than the population of the uk each year.
I have flown on Ryanair many times and never had a bad experience. No, I've never worked for them either.
.
Bull****. So one has suddenly become respectful of politicians and journos! Ho ho.
Who are these average passengers? Someone must have spent a long time interviewing them, more than the population of the uk each year.
I have flown on Ryanair many times and never had a bad experience. No, I've never worked for them either.
.
Last edited by toffeez; 13th May 2013 at 15:10.
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Safetyconcerns :
The regulator basically. in the case or Ryanair it is also the IAA . They have the statistics of incidents, reported by the airline itself , but also reported by others, in any country in which they happen. The EU , Eurocontrol and EASA have access to the same info.
Then you have to proportionate them to the number of revenue flight hours performed. Once you've done that on a European level, you will see that the low cost airlines ( with the exception of a couple of East European small carriers ) are performing in par with everyone else, if not better in the case of one .
Once again. the detestable management structure in FR does not equate ( so far ) in a bad safety record.
You will note that I used the addition "so far" in both my posts.
While I am here : For the eventual Ryanair "moderators" watching this , you indeed might think to have won a " battle" on shutting down and humiliating one of your own employees in public, but when an airline company starts to have hard "battles" with its pilots in public , it always ends badly. Read your classics.
So what are the facts, who decides what is safe and what is unsafe?
Then you have to proportionate them to the number of revenue flight hours performed. Once you've done that on a European level, you will see that the low cost airlines ( with the exception of a couple of East European small carriers ) are performing in par with everyone else, if not better in the case of one .
Once again. the detestable management structure in FR does not equate ( so far ) in a bad safety record.
You will note that I used the addition "so far" in both my posts.
While I am here : For the eventual Ryanair "moderators" watching this , you indeed might think to have won a " battle" on shutting down and humiliating one of your own employees in public, but when an airline company starts to have hard "battles" with its pilots in public , it always ends badly. Read your classics.
Before "Ze Germans" get here
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There are 2 threads, interrelated and running concurrently here on essentially the same topic. Having read through a total of 45 pages combined, had to make some comment, so won't repeat what I already said in the other, so go read if at all vaguely interested.
I shake my head continuously at many comments, in the knowledge of what has transpired, for failure to see the big picture.
A very big airline, with enormous muscle and huge pockets has clearly drawn a line in the sand and said 'enough is enough'. Like it or not, they perceived they had the right and ability and the law behind them to do what they have done and so have done. Why anyone is shocked beggars belief. It was truly inevitable. If you bad mouth a guy at the bar, you know you will likely get a smack in the mouth, end of matter. Bad mouth a big company, then you won't need Emergency Out Patient treatment, but the cost is likely to be far greater!
Lots of bad feeling about the airline involved, and the PR implications, blah blah, but again see the reality. Airline in question had 79.4M passengers year to Apr 13. Do they share the views of the small vocal element here? Clearly not!
Some people have said they are embarrassed when they see an IR registered aircraft. I'm more embarrassed to be seen as a pilot if the majority outside of this cosy little bubble took the vocal view that they represented the majority of pilots!
Hehe, will now head for cover for the inevitable onslaught form the vocal few!
I shake my head continuously at many comments, in the knowledge of what has transpired, for failure to see the big picture.
A very big airline, with enormous muscle and huge pockets has clearly drawn a line in the sand and said 'enough is enough'. Like it or not, they perceived they had the right and ability and the law behind them to do what they have done and so have done. Why anyone is shocked beggars belief. It was truly inevitable. If you bad mouth a guy at the bar, you know you will likely get a smack in the mouth, end of matter. Bad mouth a big company, then you won't need Emergency Out Patient treatment, but the cost is likely to be far greater!
Lots of bad feeling about the airline involved, and the PR implications, blah blah, but again see the reality. Airline in question had 79.4M passengers year to Apr 13. Do they share the views of the small vocal element here? Clearly not!
Some people have said they are embarrassed when they see an IR registered aircraft. I'm more embarrassed to be seen as a pilot if the majority outside of this cosy little bubble took the vocal view that they represented the majority of pilots!
Hehe, will now head for cover for the inevitable onslaught form the vocal few!
I agree with Sober Lark. I honestly don't see how these 'apologies' help Ryanair's case at all. Whether or not these individuals told lies about Ryanair surely the whole point is to question why there is such an overwhelming negative attitude to Ryanair from governments, media and down to the average passenger?
We all know the answer of course.
To the Ryanair person or persons assigned to monitor this and other threads for negative comments about your employer. Do you honestly think you've scored a victory for truth and justice? It doesn't look that way.
Maybe your time would be better spent seeking ways to rehabilitate Ryanair's image and thus increase profitability further. Or is that too difficult an idea to comprehend?
As an Irishman, I've been to foreign airports and seen a line up of aircraft sporting Irish flags. I should be proud to see that but in general I mostly feel embarrassed that Ryanair is Irish. Sad state of affairs.
I can't help feeling that Tony Ryan would not have been comfortable with this image of his airline.
We all know the answer of course.
To the Ryanair person or persons assigned to monitor this and other threads for negative comments about your employer. Do you honestly think you've scored a victory for truth and justice? It doesn't look that way.
Maybe your time would be better spent seeking ways to rehabilitate Ryanair's image and thus increase profitability further. Or is that too difficult an idea to comprehend?
As an Irishman, I've been to foreign airports and seen a line up of aircraft sporting Irish flags. I should be proud to see that but in general I mostly feel embarrassed that Ryanair is Irish. Sad state of affairs.
I can't help feeling that Tony Ryan would not have been comfortable with this image of his airline.
"Well there is clearly truth in what people are saying because Ryanair have done thing about it"
Now they have taken a decision to challenge it you are claiming well its bad publicity so they should just allow it to happen.
Dammed if they do and dammmed if they don't is it not ?
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Of course they are right to protect themselves from false accusations Racedo, but if the poster was a disgruntled employee I ask myself if what we saw here was that the best way to manage the situation? The second-in-command couldn't have been that way when he started the job so something must have happened along the way to make him that way and it is that aspect of management that would be of concern to me.
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Where did I say that, racedo? Where do I imply it? I don't believe anything of the sort.
I actually find a great deal of the anti Ryanair rhetoric irritating and actually untrue. Some of it, however is fully deserved.
My point which you chose to ignore is that this is not some kind of isolated case of a group of individuals with a grudge. I cannot think of an airline, no indeed any major company that has a worse PR image among the general public, media and the rest than Ryanair. Whether deserved or not it exists. As it happens, I'm friends with several Ryanair Captains, some longstanding senior employees. They have no illusions about the company they work for and yes they share my embarrassment around the antics of the management.
It isn't necessary, sure yes they have the right to pursue people who lie about Ryanair. But that's to ignore the elephant in the room. The best that anyone can say about them is that 'I've never had a problem with them.' As for their pilots, well the numerous threads here on that subject and on other forums should have informed you by now.
Sure they've managed to silence a few people but all that does is reinforce the image of a big bad ruthless company stamping on any criticism. The best way to silence the critics is simply to mount a charm campaign. Whatever that costs, it has to be cheaper than keeping their lawyers chasing liars.
I actually find a great deal of the anti Ryanair rhetoric irritating and actually untrue. Some of it, however is fully deserved.
My point which you chose to ignore is that this is not some kind of isolated case of a group of individuals with a grudge. I cannot think of an airline, no indeed any major company that has a worse PR image among the general public, media and the rest than Ryanair. Whether deserved or not it exists. As it happens, I'm friends with several Ryanair Captains, some longstanding senior employees. They have no illusions about the company they work for and yes they share my embarrassment around the antics of the management.
It isn't necessary, sure yes they have the right to pursue people who lie about Ryanair. But that's to ignore the elephant in the room. The best that anyone can say about them is that 'I've never had a problem with them.' As for their pilots, well the numerous threads here on that subject and on other forums should have informed you by now.
Sure they've managed to silence a few people but all that does is reinforce the image of a big bad ruthless company stamping on any criticism. The best way to silence the critics is simply to mount a charm campaign. Whatever that costs, it has to be cheaper than keeping their lawyers chasing liars.
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Tubby,
If you think that "THE" is an adjective I would strongly advise against giving grammar lessons!
Back to the topic, I can't see that these apologies will be seen as more than what they are. Forced confessions that lack any sincerity and just smack of point scoring.
to the adjective THE
Back to the topic, I can't see that these apologies will be seen as more than what they are. Forced confessions that lack any sincerity and just smack of point scoring.
Of course they are right to protect themselves from false accusations Racedo, but if the poster was a disgruntled employee I ask myself if what we saw here was that the best way to manage the situation? The second-in-command couldn't have been that way when he started the job so something must have happened along the way to make him that way and it is that aspect of management that would be of concern to me.
1 has nothing to do with aviation
1 in 2010 worked for Ryanair but we know little else.
I think you are of an age (er semi oldish git
) who will have seen people come and go from employers. Some will go on to bigger and better things, others will go with a hatred and bitterness because their supposed belief in themselves is not shared by anybody else and they missed on promotion / more money etc etc. The latter carry the grudge and feel somehow they want to make the ex employer pay and irrationally kicks in.
"Ryanair chases pilot over comments on rumour forum"
From the Sunday Times article:
Hmmm.
An online pilot’s register shows *** is a registered pilot but does not say if he flies for an airline.
Ryanair last week declined to say if he had ever flown for the company.
Ryanair last week declined to say if he had ever flown for the company.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
If the alleged libelous statements were made on this forum that is the right and proper place for the retraction. Nothing to do with fighting battles on the Internet but basic legal principle.
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Your prodigious observations on the 'semi oldish git' may hold just a few drops of water Racedo but I'm not too old to recognise the difference between toxic behaviours by disgruntled employees in the past to those of today who can participate in internet 'bad-mouthing' their employees which is arguably more potent and far reaching than slanderous comments heretofore.
The modus operandi of employees who express dissatisfaction may not be due to an inability to achieve higher earnings or gain an expected higher position but to other genuine factors.
The apology contains everything you'd expect, except Mark (not known) is obviously not endowed with 'deep pockets' and it is that non verbal communication which makes the apology seem manipulated and a bad method of communication.
The modus operandi of employees who express dissatisfaction may not be due to an inability to achieve higher earnings or gain an expected higher position but to other genuine factors.
The apology contains everything you'd expect, except Mark (not known) is obviously not endowed with 'deep pockets' and it is that non verbal communication which makes the apology seem manipulated and a bad method of communication.
