Helios Crash
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Reopening the Investigation
It appears that, despite new and significant evidence being submitted, the Greeks have decided not to reopen the investigation.
Probably because it demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that the guys were NOT guilty, and they don't like that.
I know, the original evidence also demonstrated that they were NOT guilty, but they ignored that because that is how the system works.
Time to boycott all aircraft that will enter Greek Airspace or post here, what sort of cake you would like the file baked in for your stay in a Greek jail.
Probably because it demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that the guys were NOT guilty, and they don't like that.
I know, the original evidence also demonstrated that they were NOT guilty, but they ignored that because that is how the system works.
Time to boycott all aircraft that will enter Greek Airspace or post here, what sort of cake you would like the file baked in for your stay in a Greek jail.
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Mr. Stoimenov, the Helios Air CP, interviewed on BTV, Bulgaria 10/08/12
This is the link to to the video:
??? ? ??????????? ?????, ?????? ?? 123 ?????? ?????? ? ?????? - bTV ????????
Unfortunately it is in Bulgarian.
I will try to obtain a transcript and translate it asap.
??? ? ??????????? ?????, ?????? ?? 123 ?????? ?????? ? ?????? - bTV ????????
Unfortunately it is in Bulgarian.
I will try to obtain a transcript and translate it asap.
Last edited by swish266; 10th Aug 2012 at 19:52. Reason: post title
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a good idea maybe?
It will be nice if a news network officially approaches BTV in Bulgaria for a translated copy and releases it in the UK...
Any journos about?
Mr. Learmont?
Any journos about?
Mr. Learmont?
Last edited by swish266; 10th Aug 2012 at 19:50.
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Finaly some official reaction!!!
The Bulgarian CAA, the Transport investigation board of Bulgaria and the Bulgarian Airline Pilot Union have sent an official request to the Greek authorities to reopen the investigation into the Helios crash in respect of the Bulgarian defendant, Captain Yanko Stoimenov, in the criminal case in Athens.
If the British Government reacts as well, this will increase the international pressure on the Greeks manifold!
Keep your fingers crossed guys!
If the British Government reacts as well, this will increase the international pressure on the Greeks manifold!
Keep your fingers crossed guys!
Last edited by swish266; 19th Aug 2012 at 13:05.
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excerpts of Mr Stoimenov's intervew on bTV
This is an unofficial translation of the interview of the ex-Helios CP, Captain Yanko Stoimenov shown in prime time on Bulgarian bTV some time ago:
Seven years after the tragedy there are two criminal court cases in progress - in Greece and Cyprus. Bulgarian Yanko Stoimenov who was the chief pilot of the airline "Helios", was sentenced to 123 years in prison for the crash.
Greek court of first instance held that Stoimenov, along with three representatives of Helios, is responsible for the incident. Greek investigators assume that the crash was caused by human error and Stoimenov is responsible as the Chief Pilot of the airline.
In Cyprus, the case against Yanko Stoimenov and the three other defendants was dismissed but it is under appeal by the prosecution.
"The charges against us are that we allowed incompetent pilots to operate the plane," said Stoimenov. "The copilot held an English license. To get an English and a German license and be able to maintain it before coming to "Helios" cannot be done by an incompetent person. I last checked these pilots. Before, I had dozens of tests that have confirmed their competence.
Investigations into the crash in Greece and Cyprus have reached different conclusions. It is believed that the cause of the tragedy was cabin depressurization, leading to inadequate pilots and death. According to the Greek authorities, the pilots took off with the cabin selector in the wrong position - set to manual mode.
The paradox is that in such a scenario, many hypotheses exist. What is known is that the pilots did not recognize correctly the alarm. This Boeing alarm has a double meaning that got many pilots, before those of the "Helios" flight, confused and crashes had just been avoided.
The same signal is used for decompression and wrong configuration for departure. Recommendations have been sent years before this disaster to Boeing and if they were implemented that accident might not have happened.
Yanko Stoimenov who was Chief Pilot at "Helios" admits that six months before the deadly crash the same aircraft again had a problem with pressurization.
"Then the pilots did a brilliant job and managed to land the plane safely. The system had depressurized the aircraft without any human intervention.
The manufacturer of the system is a subcontractor of Boeing - a German company. They could not find a reason why their system depressurized the aircraft.
Why was this aircraft not removed from service after such a defect six months before the crash?
"Once the manufacturer himself could not find the reason, all components were replaced with new ones. I personally flew the aircraft to the maintenance facility in England, where the system was serviced. And I ferried it back without passengers.
For you as a professional was that not strange?
"In aviation, one must rely on the expertise of others. I was calm. Now it's hard to tell because I studied the system, and it is a computer, just as vulnerable. In the investigation of the crash no one looked at the history of failures of the computer system, that for example it was liable to radio transmissions. None of the Greek team has investigated why and if the computer has allowed the depressurization only because of a change in the switch position.
Could this type of system command a depressurization so easily?
"Official information about depressurization occurrences will hardly come to light. The information we have is that it was hundreds of times and that it confused pilots. "
Two years after the crash IATA did a research on cases of decompression of Boeing 737. Information was provided only by some airlines. These statistics indicate that for a year and a half there were 62 cases of depressurization and in nearly half of the cases the reason remains unclear - these are only the cases that were reported.
A team of independent Canadian experts analyzed the physical evidence from the plane crash near Athens. The main question was – manual position of the mode switch of the pressurization system, as the Greeks claimed, or automatic. If the setting was auto, this enhances a mechanical problem in the aircraft.
The Canadian independent expert team showed that the cause of depressurization was not the pilot actions and that the pilots have put the system in normal (auto) mode, in which you operate before departure. They examined the mechanical and collision traces and calculated that the position of the switch has been auto at impact, which clears the pilots.
"They were able to study the movement of the switch at the time of the crash, which clearly shows that it was placed where it should be. They are adamant that the pilots properly did the pre-flight inspection and there was a different reason for the depressurization. Probably technical.
A contradiction exists in the study of the light on the instrument panel that would illuminate in manual mode, but we have only photos of this and other details. The switch is gone, the light - too. Nobody knows where they are. The key evidence is missing.
"We want to find an explanation of what happened. And not to speculate on the actions of the pilots, unless all available evidence is taken into account, and some of the evidence was not even requested by the court, "says Yanko Stoimenov.
The last 30 minutes of the CVR audio recording from the cockpit are available. bTV has the official recording of the last moments of flight 522 on 14 August 2005.
Throughout the recording an alarm sounds. Recording ends, for technical reasons, and presumably a few minutes later the plane crashed.
No parallel analysis of the FDR and CVR recordings was ever made. What happened at the last moment is not known. Yanko Stoimenov hopes contradictions between the Greek and Canadian independent investigation, accepted by the court in Cyprus, will provoke a reopening of the investigation in Greece. Yanko and the other three defendants face a legal battle at two more institutions in Greece and Cyprus, with the hope that nobody will be condemned as a scapegoat.
For the relatives of the 115 people killed, including about 50 children, the question is no less painful?
"At the beginning of the case in Cyprus the mood was very hostile. We were physically abused, but then our embassy reacted and security measures were taken. It never happened again, but for two years we went to court with an escort. In court, I saw people who had lost their entire family. The pain was incredible, but pain is not always the best advisor. They were looking just for a victim, to direct their vengeance at, "said the Bulgarian.
Since he was sentenced for the plane crash Yanko Stoimenov cannot fly. He is working as a consultant and simulator instructor.
"This is the fourth year that I have to bear this stress, if I succumb to emotions, I won’t last a year. I do not want to go back to what I went through. I never thought that could happen and how it affected my health and my family. I would not go into details. But at one point ... There are many incentives that make me fight. "
"It is sad, because it is a year now, that I have not flown a plane," admits Yanko. "The good thing is that many people around the world are grateful I helped them learn to fly."
Seven years after the tragedy there are two criminal court cases in progress - in Greece and Cyprus. Bulgarian Yanko Stoimenov who was the chief pilot of the airline "Helios", was sentenced to 123 years in prison for the crash.
Greek court of first instance held that Stoimenov, along with three representatives of Helios, is responsible for the incident. Greek investigators assume that the crash was caused by human error and Stoimenov is responsible as the Chief Pilot of the airline.
In Cyprus, the case against Yanko Stoimenov and the three other defendants was dismissed but it is under appeal by the prosecution.
"The charges against us are that we allowed incompetent pilots to operate the plane," said Stoimenov. "The copilot held an English license. To get an English and a German license and be able to maintain it before coming to "Helios" cannot be done by an incompetent person. I last checked these pilots. Before, I had dozens of tests that have confirmed their competence.
Investigations into the crash in Greece and Cyprus have reached different conclusions. It is believed that the cause of the tragedy was cabin depressurization, leading to inadequate pilots and death. According to the Greek authorities, the pilots took off with the cabin selector in the wrong position - set to manual mode.
The paradox is that in such a scenario, many hypotheses exist. What is known is that the pilots did not recognize correctly the alarm. This Boeing alarm has a double meaning that got many pilots, before those of the "Helios" flight, confused and crashes had just been avoided.
The same signal is used for decompression and wrong configuration for departure. Recommendations have been sent years before this disaster to Boeing and if they were implemented that accident might not have happened.
Yanko Stoimenov who was Chief Pilot at "Helios" admits that six months before the deadly crash the same aircraft again had a problem with pressurization.
"Then the pilots did a brilliant job and managed to land the plane safely. The system had depressurized the aircraft without any human intervention.
The manufacturer of the system is a subcontractor of Boeing - a German company. They could not find a reason why their system depressurized the aircraft.
Why was this aircraft not removed from service after such a defect six months before the crash?
"Once the manufacturer himself could not find the reason, all components were replaced with new ones. I personally flew the aircraft to the maintenance facility in England, where the system was serviced. And I ferried it back without passengers.
For you as a professional was that not strange?
"In aviation, one must rely on the expertise of others. I was calm. Now it's hard to tell because I studied the system, and it is a computer, just as vulnerable. In the investigation of the crash no one looked at the history of failures of the computer system, that for example it was liable to radio transmissions. None of the Greek team has investigated why and if the computer has allowed the depressurization only because of a change in the switch position.
Could this type of system command a depressurization so easily?
"Official information about depressurization occurrences will hardly come to light. The information we have is that it was hundreds of times and that it confused pilots. "
Two years after the crash IATA did a research on cases of decompression of Boeing 737. Information was provided only by some airlines. These statistics indicate that for a year and a half there were 62 cases of depressurization and in nearly half of the cases the reason remains unclear - these are only the cases that were reported.
A team of independent Canadian experts analyzed the physical evidence from the plane crash near Athens. The main question was – manual position of the mode switch of the pressurization system, as the Greeks claimed, or automatic. If the setting was auto, this enhances a mechanical problem in the aircraft.
The Canadian independent expert team showed that the cause of depressurization was not the pilot actions and that the pilots have put the system in normal (auto) mode, in which you operate before departure. They examined the mechanical and collision traces and calculated that the position of the switch has been auto at impact, which clears the pilots.
"They were able to study the movement of the switch at the time of the crash, which clearly shows that it was placed where it should be. They are adamant that the pilots properly did the pre-flight inspection and there was a different reason for the depressurization. Probably technical.
A contradiction exists in the study of the light on the instrument panel that would illuminate in manual mode, but we have only photos of this and other details. The switch is gone, the light - too. Nobody knows where they are. The key evidence is missing.
"We want to find an explanation of what happened. And not to speculate on the actions of the pilots, unless all available evidence is taken into account, and some of the evidence was not even requested by the court, "says Yanko Stoimenov.
The last 30 minutes of the CVR audio recording from the cockpit are available. bTV has the official recording of the last moments of flight 522 on 14 August 2005.
Throughout the recording an alarm sounds. Recording ends, for technical reasons, and presumably a few minutes later the plane crashed.
No parallel analysis of the FDR and CVR recordings was ever made. What happened at the last moment is not known. Yanko Stoimenov hopes contradictions between the Greek and Canadian independent investigation, accepted by the court in Cyprus, will provoke a reopening of the investigation in Greece. Yanko and the other three defendants face a legal battle at two more institutions in Greece and Cyprus, with the hope that nobody will be condemned as a scapegoat.
For the relatives of the 115 people killed, including about 50 children, the question is no less painful?
"At the beginning of the case in Cyprus the mood was very hostile. We were physically abused, but then our embassy reacted and security measures were taken. It never happened again, but for two years we went to court with an escort. In court, I saw people who had lost their entire family. The pain was incredible, but pain is not always the best advisor. They were looking just for a victim, to direct their vengeance at, "said the Bulgarian.
Since he was sentenced for the plane crash Yanko Stoimenov cannot fly. He is working as a consultant and simulator instructor.
"This is the fourth year that I have to bear this stress, if I succumb to emotions, I won’t last a year. I do not want to go back to what I went through. I never thought that could happen and how it affected my health and my family. I would not go into details. But at one point ... There are many incentives that make me fight. "
"It is sad, because it is a year now, that I have not flown a plane," admits Yanko. "The good thing is that many people around the world are grateful I helped them learn to fly."
Last edited by swish266; 19th Aug 2012 at 15:13.
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Re-opening the Investigation
This fiasco has taken it's toll on all the accused, aviation people with years of experience who did nothing wrong, but in the Greek system heads must roll.
The First Instance court was a farce, and there is little hope that the Appeal will be any better. Unlike UK Courts the evidence is not important; the prosecution evidence is all from the accident report, but the defence is by non-Greek experts, all with years of experience but who are wrong because they have the temerity to question the Report.
Great that Ianko's Government has stood up and been counted. The UK Government has done nothing and is unlikely to.
The Greek AAI&ASB are not going to Re-open the investigation.
The UK AAIB has stood up and been counted, and they have told AAI&ASB that they consider that the original Report is flawed and the investigation should be Re-opened.
However, NTSB/Boeing don't want it Re-opened; I wonder why
and it is to their tune that the Greeks will dance.
The First Instance court was a farce, and there is little hope that the Appeal will be any better. Unlike UK Courts the evidence is not important; the prosecution evidence is all from the accident report, but the defence is by non-Greek experts, all with years of experience but who are wrong because they have the temerity to question the Report.
Great that Ianko's Government has stood up and been counted. The UK Government has done nothing and is unlikely to.
The Greek AAI&ASB are not going to Re-open the investigation.
The UK AAIB has stood up and been counted, and they have told AAI&ASB that they consider that the original Report is flawed and the investigation should be Re-opened.
However, NTSB/Boeing don't want it Re-opened; I wonder why
and it is to their tune that the Greeks will dance.
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A sombre example of life imitating art. The first version of the novel 'Flight 935 Do You Read' (in which an aircraft comes to grief after the death by hypoxia of all persons on board) was written two decades before the Helios accident. In the original version the flight engineer was (falsely) blamed for the accident. In the final version the pilots are (falsely) blamed.
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They should all take it in turns, not to turn up, citing health reasons. If they can drag it out until Aug 2013, they're free. Helios appeal hearing delayed - Cyprus Mail
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I sounds to me as if the Greeks know that they have got this one wrong in a big way so to save face they will let the whole thing drag on until it times out.
That way they don't have to jail people and have the whole of The aviation industry demanding the release of these people and the Greek legal system does not have the embaressment of having a case overturned in open court.
That way they don't have to jail people and have the whole of The aviation industry demanding the release of these people and the Greek legal system does not have the embaressment of having a case overturned in open court.
Retrial
The Cypriot courts have ordered a retrial, it would appear.
Supreme Court orders retrial in Helios case - Cyprus Mail
Supreme Court orders retrial in Helios case - Cyprus Mail
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Firstly I have known Alan for a number of years and can again only say he is a great Engineer
Its an outrage that this witchhunt went this far , over the last 35 years , I have seen switches left in the wrong position from crew rushing off to Hotels or Home, 1000s of times , even a crew leaving an aircraft with the no 2 engine still running .
At least on 3 occasions the FLT/GND switch selected by crew to the wrong position - SELECTED !!!
How can the industry tolerate legal action against the Engineers - the very people who stop accidents before they happen on a daily basis , for doing nothing wrong
So how can any engineer ever fill out any incident , delay or technical report without legal caveats , in fact every tech log entry would need a legal caveat .
Given the unbelievable stupidity of some crew entries in the tech log just how could some of them ever be certified ?
Someone in Greece needs to look up negligence in the dictionary - this was not negligence
If we can be blamed for aircrew going wrong or poor crew systems knowledge
- We are all going to need seriously good lawyers!!
Its an outrage that this witchhunt went this far , over the last 35 years , I have seen switches left in the wrong position from crew rushing off to Hotels or Home, 1000s of times , even a crew leaving an aircraft with the no 2 engine still running .
At least on 3 occasions the FLT/GND switch selected by crew to the wrong position - SELECTED !!!
How can the industry tolerate legal action against the Engineers - the very people who stop accidents before they happen on a daily basis , for doing nothing wrong
So how can any engineer ever fill out any incident , delay or technical report without legal caveats , in fact every tech log entry would need a legal caveat .
Given the unbelievable stupidity of some crew entries in the tech log just how could some of them ever be certified ?
Someone in Greece needs to look up negligence in the dictionary - this was not negligence
If we can be blamed for aircrew going wrong or poor crew systems knowledge
- We are all going to need seriously good lawyers!!
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It appears that from the link above that the entire reason for continuing with this judicial farce is for a 'moral victory' on behalf of the victim's families. I'm also pretty disturbed by the fact that the Cypriots have reopened the issue with a new trial. I can only assume that this is due to Greek political pressure as Cyprus will fall if the Greeks economy does eventually sink without being propped up by the Eurozone.
In that case they may attempt to prosecute everybody on duty in the respective jurisdictions of departure, overflight and impact right down to the baggage handlers.
Obviously we all feel sorry for the victims and their families but they're looking for their 'moral victory' at too high a cost.
In that case they may attempt to prosecute everybody on duty in the respective jurisdictions of departure, overflight and impact right down to the baggage handlers.
Obviously we all feel sorry for the victims and their families but they're looking for their 'moral victory' at too high a cost.
