Dear International Pilots, You Are Not Welcome In Europe
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I dont think this will last many years...at least i hope not. It's ridiculous! Where is Europe going to get all their pilots? Surely after 10 years in europe, with General aviation not THAT big, and coupled with a tight economic situation, their conversions will go something to that of a FAA/TC conversion.
UGH I want to go to Europe and fly NOW! not later
UGH I want to go to Europe and fly NOW! not later
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Vested Interest
The EASA/JAA/CAA regulations are designed to secure vested interest but to dress that up with spurious "safety" regional concerns that are transparent to anyone with a grain of common sense.
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I gained a UK ATPL many years ago and worked in the UK for 15 years before being forced, by redundancy, to move overseas. Throughout my time abroad the UK CAA would always recognise my overseas jet time and would allow me to re-validate my licence on my return to the UK.
I now find that under the jackboot of EASA, because I have not exercised the privileges of my UK licence for 7 years it has become invalid and if I wish to fly in the UK I must take all the exams again.
The UK CAA is now no more than a regional office of EASA and the authority to re-validate my ATPL has been taken from them and surrendered to their masters in Brussells If I needed one reason to get Britain out of the EU this would be a good start. As it happens I can think of more than one.
I now find that under the jackboot of EASA, because I have not exercised the privileges of my UK licence for 7 years it has become invalid and if I wish to fly in the UK I must take all the exams again.
The UK CAA is now no more than a regional office of EASA and the authority to re-validate my ATPL has been taken from them and surrendered to their masters in Brussells If I needed one reason to get Britain out of the EU this would be a good start. As it happens I can think of more than one.
I gained a UK ATPL many years ago and worked in the UK for 15 years before being forced, by redundancy, to move overseas. Throughout my time abroad the UK CAA would always recognise my overseas jet time and would allow me to re-validate my licence on my return to the UK.
I now find that under the jackboot of EASA, because I have not exercised the privileges of my UK licence for 7 years it has become invalid and if I wish to fly in the UK I must take all the exams again.
The UK CAA is now no more than a regional office of EASA and the authority to re-validate my ATPL has been taken from them and surrendered to their masters in Brussells If I needed one reason to get Britain out of the EU this would be a good start. As it happens I can think of more than one.
I now find that under the jackboot of EASA, because I have not exercised the privileges of my UK licence for 7 years it has become invalid and if I wish to fly in the UK I must take all the exams again.
The UK CAA is now no more than a regional office of EASA and the authority to re-validate my ATPL has been taken from them and surrendered to their masters in Brussells If I needed one reason to get Britain out of the EU this would be a good start. As it happens I can think of more than one.
I agree BIG MACH - the sooner UK leaves the EU the better.
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Where is Europe going to get all their pilots
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On top of that European Company’s making big bucks with student pilots; they charge up to and more than 100’000 Euros for training and after that they put them in the right seat of an A320/B737 with a total flight experience of about 300h for a B-scale salary.
It’s pure BS. If it was a safety issue no US carrier would be allowed to operate in European airspace. Next thing they ask tourists to get a European driver’s license before they can rent a car.
I am also one of the guys who would have never been able to fly if it wasn’t for the USA. I am very grateful for that and I’m sick and tired of Europe. Unfortunately I am not welcome to life in the US.
The next question is about currency; does an EU pilot who is operating an N reg aircraft with an EASA license has to stay current under FAA (2 profchecks)?
It’s pure BS. If it was a safety issue no US carrier would be allowed to operate in European airspace. Next thing they ask tourists to get a European driver’s license before they can rent a car.
I am also one of the guys who would have never been able to fly if it wasn’t for the USA. I am very grateful for that and I’m sick and tired of Europe. Unfortunately I am not welcome to life in the US.
The next question is about currency; does an EU pilot who is operating an N reg aircraft with an EASA license has to stay current under FAA (2 profchecks)?
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Is it fair to say, if no non-euro pilots are welcomed in Euro, it should be the same in other continents for Euro pilots too.
So, am I right in saying, Euro pilots should be moving back from to EU?Europe from e.g. middle east (raking in $$$ tax free), etc.
Nice one I suppose.
I guess I have to look for a job in Artic!
My future is bleak...
So, am I right in saying, Euro pilots should be moving back from to EU?Europe from e.g. middle east (raking in $$$ tax free), etc.
Nice one I suppose.
I guess I have to look for a job in Artic!
My future is bleak...
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No pilot is really welcome in Europe. The 
who run the system are totally unaccountable and run the system any way they see fit. Their system is not fit for purpose. Who can you complain to? No one! The slime who make the rules work for (the highest scum of all) an EU commissioner - who is unelected. Our system is nothing to be proud of. It's the epitome of a totalitarian bureaucracy.
With any luck they'll all get caught out in an office fire or food poisoning.
who run the system are totally unaccountable and run the system any way they see fit. Their system is not fit for purpose. Who can you complain to? No one! The slime who make the rules work for (the highest scum of all) an EU commissioner - who is unelected. Our system is nothing to be proud of. It's the epitome of a totalitarian bureaucracy.With any luck they'll all get caught out in an office fire or food poisoning.
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Let's consider why ICAO standards were promulgated in the first place. To ensure some kind of standards in pilot training,one assumes. Once a pilot attains an ICAO licence, it should be recognized by all signatory countries' authorities. Seems simple enough.
As for the US, many airlines send their cadets for training there because a fine weather training area is easy to find, and costs are much lower than in the EU,as stated elsewhere.
Lufthansa has been training such cadets as their source of pilots for years. Quite successfully too, it would appear.
Because of these factors, some American Universities and FTO's tailored courses to train JAR cadets, but these fell by the wayside during the economic downturn. Now, they will have to retool to train to EASA standards.Can we expect training to return to Europe with its weather and expense considerations? Don't bet on that.
As for the US, many airlines send their cadets for training there because a fine weather training area is easy to find, and costs are much lower than in the EU,as stated elsewhere.
Lufthansa has been training such cadets as their source of pilots for years. Quite successfully too, it would appear.
Because of these factors, some American Universities and FTO's tailored courses to train JAR cadets, but these fell by the wayside during the economic downturn. Now, they will have to retool to train to EASA standards.Can we expect training to return to Europe with its weather and expense considerations? Don't bet on that.
Last edited by taildrag; 9th May 2012 at 16:28. Reason: punctuation
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EASA ops, the new world standard . . .
Now, they will have to retool to train to EASA standards
The EASA boys at Bruxelles must be
all over themselves . . . just imagining the horror of so many non EASA trained pilots operating their foreign registered big jets into EASA turf. 
The Bruxelles boys already must be dabbling with the idea of requiring the rest of the world's pilots to obtain EASA licenses.
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Spent 40 years of a career operating heavy jets into and through Europe.
Until you understand that the EASA rules are really an action in restraint of trade, then you don't get it.
Apparently, even the UK CAA [and/or it's predecessors] accepted that with 2,500hrs [?] jet command in a/c >5,700kg you might not be the ill-trained aviation moron which the Regs assumed.
Rant over!!
G'day
Until you understand that the EASA rules are really an action in restraint of trade, then you don't get it.
Apparently, even the UK CAA [and/or it's predecessors] accepted that with 2,500hrs [?] jet command in a/c >5,700kg you might not be the ill-trained aviation moron which the Regs assumed.
Rant over!!
G'day
"So if my licence is inferior, why am I allowed to use it to fly a Hong Kong registered B747 into an airport such as LHR?".
That was a question asked of the CAA recently. Not suprisingly, they had no answer. It's all about making more money out of pilots.
That was a question asked of the CAA recently. Not suprisingly, they had no answer. It's all about making more money out of pilots.
This whole EASA thing is an utter farce in my opinion.
99% of the users don't want it but it is being forced on us!
We need to complain loud and clear to our political "servants".
Why on earth we didn't stick to (UK) national licences beggars belief.
We're now snowed under with a mountain of bureaucratic nonsense (with no accountability for those imposing same), a "system" which is unfit for purpose, government officials who haven't got a clue what all this stuff means, not to mention it all costing the users more money as well as wasted time!
A licence is just a bit of paper that says the holder is qualified to exercise a privilege - WHY has it been made so complicated?
99% of the users don't want it but it is being forced on us!
We need to complain loud and clear to our political "servants".
Why on earth we didn't stick to (UK) national licences beggars belief.
We're now snowed under with a mountain of bureaucratic nonsense (with no accountability for those imposing same), a "system" which is unfit for purpose, government officials who haven't got a clue what all this stuff means, not to mention it all costing the users more money as well as wasted time!
A licence is just a bit of paper that says the holder is qualified to exercise a privilege - WHY has it been made so complicated?
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Top Dogs At EASA Are Non Pilots . . .
EASA Executive Director: Patrick Goudou NON PILOT
Patrick Goudou was born in 1950 in Paris, France. After graduating from the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, he went on to train at the Ecole Superieure de l'Aeronautique et de l' Espace in Toulouse with a specialization in aero-engines.
In 1975 he started his professional career at the French General Delegation for Armaments (Delegation Generale pour l'Armement - DGA), where he worked primarily in the aeronautical sector. For ten years he was responsible for testing civil and military aero-engines at the DGA Engines Test Centre at Saclay. He was then appointed to a series of management posts in economic control and industrial strategy, with particular emphasis on the aerospace industry and the question of its restructuring to European level. In 1997 he became Director for Commercial and International Affairs at the French shipyard DCN.
At the beginning of 2002 he was appointed Chief Executive of the French Aeronautical Maintenance Agency (Service de la maintenance aeronautique - SMA), a body responsible for engineering, industrial maintenance and repairs to aircraft, engines and aircraft equipment, as well as for the design and production of aeronautical parts.
He has been Executive Director of the European Aviation Safety Agency since the Agency's start of operations in 2003.
He is married and has three children.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Approvals & standardisation Director - Trevor Woods NON PILOT
Trevor Woods commenced his career as an apprentice at British Aerospace. He graduated in Aeronautical Engineering and was later awarded a Master of Business Administration. Following his graduation, he worked in the Military Aircraft Division of British Aerospace as a Future Projects Engineer in the development of supersonic VSTOL aircraft.
He moved to the UK CAA in the design certification of aircraft and over time covered all aircraft categories from balloons to supersonic transport leading both national and international certification projects including JAA certification of the Next Generation of Boeing 737 aircraft. Through this he was engaged in the development of working arrangements with FAA that encompassed cooperative and concurrent certification along with what was then a new approach to determining the applicable rules for derivative aircraft.
Positions that he held in the UK CAA included Head of UK Aeroplanes and Rotorcraft Certification, and Head of Strategy and Policy for initial and continuing airworthiness. During this period he was an active participant in the JAA Rulemaking Sectorial Team and subsequently the EASA Advisory Group of National Authorities (AGNA). He was also very active in the ICAO Airworthiness Panel which completely overhauled Annex 8 of the Convention.
When EASA was formed he played a central role in the UK CAA’s transition programme to accommodate the initial Basic EASA Regulation. This included organisational restructuring, the transfer of responsibilities to EASA and the work that the UK CAA carried out on behalf of the Agency.
In January 2008 he was appointed as Chief Operating Officer of Air Safety Support International. This is a subsidiary company of the UK CAA providing air safety support and regulation for the UK Overseas Territories.
He is married and has three children.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rulemaking Director: Jules A.J.M. Kneepkens NON PILOT
Jules Kneepkens was born in 1955 and is a Dutch national. After graduating from the Utrecht University in Social Sciences with a focus on International Political Relations and Development Co-operation (University of Amsterdam), Mr Kneepkens started his professional career in 1983 as a project manager in development aid and became soon the Chairman of a secular European network of non-governmental organisations in Brussels.
From 1990 to 1991 he was working for a member of the Dutch parliament. After that he joined the Ministry of Transport, Public Works and Water Management first as Head of the Management and Infrastructure Strategy Division and as of 1996 as Head of the Environment and Country Planning in the Ministry's Civil Aviation Division.
In 2002 he was appointed Director Civil Aviation and International Affairs of the Dutch Directorate of Civil Aviation and Transport where he was responsible for safety, security, international aviation policy, environmental issues, air traffic management and privatisation of airports. At the beginning of 2007 Mr Kneepkens assumed the position of Director General Civil Aviation of the Kingdom of Belgium. In both positions he was a member of the EASA Management Board and held functions as Vice-President of Eurocontrol, board member of the JAA-Board, Chair of the European Security Institute EASTI, Advisory Board member of the Safety Training Institute EASTO in the Netherlands, Chair of the Steering Group Functional Airspace Block Central Europe, Chair of 'International Financial Facility Safety' (IFFAS) established by ICAO.
Jules Kneepkens was appointed Rulemaking Director of the European Aviation Safety Agency as of 1 September 2008 by the Agency's Management Board.
He is married and has two children
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Certification Director: Dr. Norbert Lohl NON PILOT
Dr. Norbert Lohl is a German national. After his University Education in Physics between 1969 and 1976 he started his professional career at the German Aeronautics Research Center DLR on Flight Guidance and Navigation where he made his Doctor-Engineer degree in aeronautics. In 1982 he joined the German Aviation Authority Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) starting as Project Certification Manager in the Transport Category Airplanes Division. From 1990 he acted as Head of the LBA Regional Office Berlin and became in 1993 Head of the LBA Engine/Equipment Type Certification Division. From 1998 he was Deputy of the LBA Director and Head of the LBA Administration Department. In 2001, he became Head of the LBA Commercial Operators Department. Dr Norbert Lohl has been Director of Certification at EASA since the beginning of 2004.
Patrick Goudou was born in 1950 in Paris, France. After graduating from the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, he went on to train at the Ecole Superieure de l'Aeronautique et de l' Espace in Toulouse with a specialization in aero-engines.
In 1975 he started his professional career at the French General Delegation for Armaments (Delegation Generale pour l'Armement - DGA), where he worked primarily in the aeronautical sector. For ten years he was responsible for testing civil and military aero-engines at the DGA Engines Test Centre at Saclay. He was then appointed to a series of management posts in economic control and industrial strategy, with particular emphasis on the aerospace industry and the question of its restructuring to European level. In 1997 he became Director for Commercial and International Affairs at the French shipyard DCN.
At the beginning of 2002 he was appointed Chief Executive of the French Aeronautical Maintenance Agency (Service de la maintenance aeronautique - SMA), a body responsible for engineering, industrial maintenance and repairs to aircraft, engines and aircraft equipment, as well as for the design and production of aeronautical parts.
He has been Executive Director of the European Aviation Safety Agency since the Agency's start of operations in 2003.
He is married and has three children.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Approvals & standardisation Director - Trevor Woods NON PILOT
Trevor Woods commenced his career as an apprentice at British Aerospace. He graduated in Aeronautical Engineering and was later awarded a Master of Business Administration. Following his graduation, he worked in the Military Aircraft Division of British Aerospace as a Future Projects Engineer in the development of supersonic VSTOL aircraft.
He moved to the UK CAA in the design certification of aircraft and over time covered all aircraft categories from balloons to supersonic transport leading both national and international certification projects including JAA certification of the Next Generation of Boeing 737 aircraft. Through this he was engaged in the development of working arrangements with FAA that encompassed cooperative and concurrent certification along with what was then a new approach to determining the applicable rules for derivative aircraft.
Positions that he held in the UK CAA included Head of UK Aeroplanes and Rotorcraft Certification, and Head of Strategy and Policy for initial and continuing airworthiness. During this period he was an active participant in the JAA Rulemaking Sectorial Team and subsequently the EASA Advisory Group of National Authorities (AGNA). He was also very active in the ICAO Airworthiness Panel which completely overhauled Annex 8 of the Convention.
When EASA was formed he played a central role in the UK CAA’s transition programme to accommodate the initial Basic EASA Regulation. This included organisational restructuring, the transfer of responsibilities to EASA and the work that the UK CAA carried out on behalf of the Agency.
In January 2008 he was appointed as Chief Operating Officer of Air Safety Support International. This is a subsidiary company of the UK CAA providing air safety support and regulation for the UK Overseas Territories.
He is married and has three children.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rulemaking Director: Jules A.J.M. Kneepkens NON PILOT
Jules Kneepkens was born in 1955 and is a Dutch national. After graduating from the Utrecht University in Social Sciences with a focus on International Political Relations and Development Co-operation (University of Amsterdam), Mr Kneepkens started his professional career in 1983 as a project manager in development aid and became soon the Chairman of a secular European network of non-governmental organisations in Brussels.
From 1990 to 1991 he was working for a member of the Dutch parliament. After that he joined the Ministry of Transport, Public Works and Water Management first as Head of the Management and Infrastructure Strategy Division and as of 1996 as Head of the Environment and Country Planning in the Ministry's Civil Aviation Division.
In 2002 he was appointed Director Civil Aviation and International Affairs of the Dutch Directorate of Civil Aviation and Transport where he was responsible for safety, security, international aviation policy, environmental issues, air traffic management and privatisation of airports. At the beginning of 2007 Mr Kneepkens assumed the position of Director General Civil Aviation of the Kingdom of Belgium. In both positions he was a member of the EASA Management Board and held functions as Vice-President of Eurocontrol, board member of the JAA-Board, Chair of the European Security Institute EASTI, Advisory Board member of the Safety Training Institute EASTO in the Netherlands, Chair of the Steering Group Functional Airspace Block Central Europe, Chair of 'International Financial Facility Safety' (IFFAS) established by ICAO.
Jules Kneepkens was appointed Rulemaking Director of the European Aviation Safety Agency as of 1 September 2008 by the Agency's Management Board.
He is married and has two children
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Certification Director: Dr. Norbert Lohl NON PILOT
Dr. Norbert Lohl is a German national. After his University Education in Physics between 1969 and 1976 he started his professional career at the German Aeronautics Research Center DLR on Flight Guidance and Navigation where he made his Doctor-Engineer degree in aeronautics. In 1982 he joined the German Aviation Authority Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) starting as Project Certification Manager in the Transport Category Airplanes Division. From 1990 he acted as Head of the LBA Regional Office Berlin and became in 1993 Head of the LBA Engine/Equipment Type Certification Division. From 1998 he was Deputy of the LBA Director and Head of the LBA Administration Department. In 2001, he became Head of the LBA Commercial Operators Department. Dr Norbert Lohl has been Director of Certification at EASA since the beginning of 2004.
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I have an Aussie ATPL, and a British Passport, and considered Gaining a JAA ATPL for one day I might like to work over there. After finding out the Cost and BS involved with doing it. Not interested.
A mate of mine is a highly experienced (43 years) heavy jet engineer with extensive B777 experience (In Australia). Everything is good until one day they start going on about him not having a "B1" rating on his licence, (after they start transitioning to a euro type licencing system) and therefore not qualified to sign off on some AC.
If thats the way they see it, why does CASA allow JAA/FAA holders to come in and do 2 small exams, pay a few $$ and essentially get handed an ATPL.
A mate of mine is a highly experienced (43 years) heavy jet engineer with extensive B777 experience (In Australia). Everything is good until one day they start going on about him not having a "B1" rating on his licence, (after they start transitioning to a euro type licencing system) and therefore not qualified to sign off on some AC.
If thats the way they see it, why does CASA allow JAA/FAA holders to come in and do 2 small exams, pay a few $$ and essentially get handed an ATPL.
I have managed to hang onto my UK ATPL and convert it into a JAR ATPL while working overseas, but it has been a struggle. It was actually the CAA with their interpretation of the JAR FCLs which were a problem. JAR FCLs said I could keep my old UK rating (with restrictions), the CAA said "no". But now EASA FCL says "yes" and this is enshrined in EASA FCL and the European legistlation which enables it.
I don't have a desire to return to Europe. It's marginalising itself, especially with it's common currency which is rapidly heading towards "Andrex" staus. But my worling ATPL is a validation of my original CAA ATPL, and I have to keep that (or replacement) current if I want to move location for a future employment and another validation.
The notion that I have to take a load of exams on nonesence such as lattitude nuts in a DI because i haven't had a JAR IR for 7 years is nonesence. I have a perfectly good IR from an authority which is at least as demanding as the UK CAA, and I renew it every six months. It's like asking a doctor to retake his Biology GCSE on return to the UK after working elsewhere for 7 years.
I don't have a desire to return to Europe. It's marginalising itself, especially with it's common currency which is rapidly heading towards "Andrex" staus. But my worling ATPL is a validation of my original CAA ATPL, and I have to keep that (or replacement) current if I want to move location for a future employment and another validation.
The notion that I have to take a load of exams on nonesence such as lattitude nuts in a DI because i haven't had a JAR IR for 7 years is nonesence. I have a perfectly good IR from an authority which is at least as demanding as the UK CAA, and I renew it every six months. It's like asking a doctor to retake his Biology GCSE on return to the UK after working elsewhere for 7 years.
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The time is coming when there will be a IN/OUT vote on the EU and EASA wil certainly factor into many pilots decisions when that day comes.
The lack of democracy and the breathtaking arrogance and costs associated with all these things as stated above is becoming more evident day by day as the whole system impodes
There just dont get the concept of democracy; no one voted for EASA and its rules, no members of the public voted, no passengers voted; no pilot voted for these rules. They (EU/EASA) are UNDEMOCRATIC - THAT WILL BE THEIR UNDOING ...
The political climate is changing rapidly
The lack of democracy and the breathtaking arrogance and costs associated with all these things as stated above is becoming more evident day by day as the whole system impodes
There just dont get the concept of democracy; no one voted for EASA and its rules, no members of the public voted, no passengers voted; no pilot voted for these rules. They (EU/EASA) are UNDEMOCRATIC - THAT WILL BE THEIR UNDOING ...
The political climate is changing rapidly
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This thread is completely ridiculous.
Who wants to make us believe an European pilot can go to north america with his pilot licence and find a job, like that?
He would have to get a green card (citizenship would be better), then get the appropriate licences.
Well, that's exactly the same in Europe, and that's not really new.
This thread is what we can call a non event.
It seems somebody woke up this morning with a headache or something wrong and decided to write some bullcr@p.
Who wants to make us believe an European pilot can go to north america with his pilot licence and find a job, like that?
He would have to get a green card (citizenship would be better), then get the appropriate licences.
Well, that's exactly the same in Europe, and that's not really new.
This thread is what we can call a non event.
It seems somebody woke up this morning with a headache or something wrong and decided to write some bullcr@p.
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Europe wants to protect the jobs here against oversees pilots, with this easa-thing???? Bullsh*t, cause if i want to work in france as a european citizen, i simply dont get in because i dont speak french. The same goes for Germany. The same goes for Scandinavia etc. Do u think that europe is reacting in these cases??? Hello, europe, where aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you???????
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KAG,
that's not new, you are right. It is the implementation of the regulations. Even with PPLs. If a European pilot wants to fly in the US he needs a validation. It is valid as long as the foreign licence is current. If you want to do that in Europe it needs much more paperwork, it is valid for one year and you can do it only once in a lifetime. The second time an American goes for a Eurotrip with a rental plane he needs a stand-alone EASA PPL. Doesn't matter if he flies triple 7 at work and hundreds of hours in his free-time. My English isn't good enough to tell how stupid those EASA rules are.
that's not new, you are right. It is the implementation of the regulations. Even with PPLs. If a European pilot wants to fly in the US he needs a validation. It is valid as long as the foreign licence is current. If you want to do that in Europe it needs much more paperwork, it is valid for one year and you can do it only once in a lifetime. The second time an American goes for a Eurotrip with a rental plane he needs a stand-alone EASA PPL. Doesn't matter if he flies triple 7 at work and hundreds of hours in his free-time. My English isn't good enough to tell how stupid those EASA rules are.
Last edited by ArcticChiller; 15th May 2012 at 12:46.