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Sooo, You Want to Fly for Korean Airlines Do You?

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Sooo, You Want to Fly for Korean Airlines Do You?

Old 8th Apr 2012, 03:31
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Thread drift, but please permit my indulgance.

Hopefully this clip will provide a little ballance on the debate on Korean v Western culture.


Last edited by nomorecatering; 8th Apr 2012 at 03:53.
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 03:51
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully this clip will provide a little balance on the debate on Korean v culture.
Regardless of the true state of Korean culture, this is artlessly manipulated show business and has no more to do with reality than does so-called "reaiity tv." My buehlchit meter was pegged.
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Old 8th Apr 2012, 05:10
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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While there are clearly cultural issues if you fly in the far east I am always carefull of thes pages and the posts that appear.

I am minded of a post that I read on these pages about a truly shocking airline that treated its staff like dirt with the pilot management being imposable to communicate with, as I continued to read this appalling story it slowly dawned on me that the post was about the airline that I worked for.

Clearly the guy writing the post had issues but none of them in my experience were true and the management culture was one of the most open and reasonable that I had encountered in 30 years on the business, I can only think that the guy was writing these things at 1AM after a night in the bar.

For these reasons I would take some of the above with a very large pinch of salt.
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 09:56
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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“very large pinch of salt” et al;

One thing I’ve learned in my 28-year aviation career is that ensuring job security and promotion can cause so-called "professional" pilots to act and conduct themselves in ways that are far removed from any association with professionalism. It may be that colleagues truly faced many problems with an airline management regime while certain individuals did not, for whatever reasons.
To give you an example of the depths to which individuals will sink and sacrifice their self respect, one pilot I am aware of at Air China’s cargo division spent so much of his free time in the office presenting photographs of his family to managers, he had the photographs laminated! - I am informed this specimen of our profession has now been promoted to “instructor” status to reward his efforts to please.
So, you may well take the above with a “very large pinch of salt” but it rather depends on the facts of your own personal experiences sans integrity or not.
From my personal experiences at both Korean Airlines and Air China, you are far better off at Korean Airlines for the previoulsy stated reasons. Alternatively, if you want to avoid any communication challenges completely, stay home!
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 10:12
  #85 (permalink)  
9.G
 
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D.B, why take such radical stance? How about proper conflict management solution. That's what distinct a civilized approach from brown nosing or being unpleasant individual. The subject isn't personal but operational. If there's a disagreement between whoever then there are two way to resolve it. Personal discussion or using the reporting system. First solution requires diplomatic skills whereas the latter one impeccable knowledge of the procedures. In any case the commander has the ultimate final say in operational matters. The hustle ins't worth the candles in this particular case it seems, at least.
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 17:29
  #86 (permalink)  
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Thank you for that clip slasher, it was very good. A couple of mistakes with the standard call - outs but otherwise spot on.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 03:42
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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15 April 1999; Korean Air MD-11; Flight 6316; near Shanghai, China

I flew for KAL in the 90s. Foreign crews were treated pretty good on the job, but the contractors weren't any better. I stuck my neck out several times exerting "Captains authority" over maintenance and dispatch items. I was always backed up by the airline check airmen.

Does anyone have any report on the above listed accident. I flew the MD and would be very interested in reading any accident report.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 04:38
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone have any report on the above listed accident. I flew the MD and would be very interested in reading any accident report.
Don't know if the orginal report is online anywhere but it was an intentional nose over on takeoff due to feet to meters altitude clearance confusion.

Narrative:
MD-11F cargo plane HL7373 was operating flight KE6316 from Shanghai's Honqiao Airport to Seoul. The plane was loaded with 68 tons of cargo and pushed back from it's stand. Shanghai Tower then cleared the flight as follows: "Korean Air six three one six clear to destination flight planned route flight level two niner zero. After departure turn left direct to November Hotel Whiskey. Initially climb and maintain niner hundred meters. Departure frequency one one niner zero five. Squawk six three one six." The engines were started and the airplane taxied to runway 18. Shortly after 4pm the flight was cleared for takeoff. After takeoff the first officer contacted Shanghai Departure and received clearance to climb to 1500 metres (4900 feet): "Korean Air six three one six now turn left direct to November Hotel Whiskey climb and maintain one thousand five hundred meters."
When the aircraft climbed to 4500 feet in the corridor, the captain, after receiving two wrong affirmative answers from the first officer that the required altitude should be 1500 feet, thought that the aircraft was 3000 feet too high. The captain then pushed the control column abrubtly and roughly forward causing the MD-11 to enter a rapid descent. Both crew members tried to recover from the dive, but were unable. The airplane crashed into an industrial development zone 10 kilometers (6 miles) southwest of Hongqiao airport. The plane plunged to the ground, plowing into housing for migrant workers and exploded.
From: ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas MD-11F HL7373 Shanghai-Hongqiao Airport (SHA)
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 05:52
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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When the aircraft climbed to 4500 feet in the corridor, the captain, after receiving two wrong affirmative answers from the first officer that the required altitude should be 1500 feet, thought that the aircraft was 3000 feet too high. The captain then pushed the control column abrubtly and roughly forward causing the MD-11 to enter a rapid descent. Both crew members tried to recover from the dive, but were unable. The airplane crashed into an industrial development zone 10 kilometers (6 miles) southwest of Hongqiao airport. The plane plunged to the ground, plowing into housing for migrant workers and exploded.
Something I observed a long time ago, the old ex-military Korean pilots are both abrupt in mannerism and aircraft control. I was almost always jerked up from from my after landing snooze ( whilst dead- heading ) when they slam on the brakes whilst docking in on the VDGS. When they see the red light illuminating, it's slam on the brakes! When they get a real TCAS RA, it's another abrupt maneuver. When they suddenly detect an upper cruise level speed excursion, it is usually another abrupt reaction.

So the cause of the above MD 11 at ZSSS as described was certainly plausible.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 06:25
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Ok.so that just about covers the Koreans.It takes a special expat type to last in Korea.China.Japan.Nobodys perfect.I think it was Churchill who painted the Russians as an «enigma inside a riddle» and the same could be said of the Orient.Kipling put it even better with his «east is east and west is west» saying.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 08:38
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Air Koryo. DPRK National Airline.

An expatriate friend of mine who lives in Beijing and is CEO of a company doing business in North Korea informs me that he has flown in excess of one thousand ( 1000 ) flights with Air Koryo the national airline of North Korea. The first was in 1993 and he is still doing it. The majority of these flights were Beijing - Pyongyang - Beijing on the IL62 when until recently it was taken off passenger routes and replaced by the TU-204. He describes Air Koryo as his favourite airline for reasons of punctuality, inflight service and the big smiles he gets from the girls. Having flown with Air Koryo I can't do other than endorse his sentiments.
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 16:32
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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He describes Air Koryo as his favourite airline for reasons of punctuality, inflight service and the big smiles he gets from the girls. Having flown with Air Koryo I can't do other than endorse his sentiments.
Well, they are banned from the EU and, shall we say, get somewhat mixed reviews from other travelers:

Inside North Korea's Air Koryo, The World's Only 1-Star Airline - Business Insider
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 04:10
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Another KE item in today's news:

Bomb threat forces Korean Air jet to land in B.C.

2nd threat in 2 days causes diversion to Vancouver Island military base

CBC News

Posted: Apr 10, 2012 9:01 PM ET

Last Updated: Apr 10, 2012 11:51 PM ET

The crew of a Korean Air 777 airliner was forced to make an emergency landing at a military airbase on Vancouver Island after the airline received its second bomb threat in two days.

Korean Air Flight 72, with 149 people on board, had taken off from Vancouver International Airport headed for Seoul, South Korea, at 2:30 p.m. PT Tuesday.

The crew turned back off the north coast of B.C. after a bomb threat was made in a telephone call to the airline's Los Angeles office, a Korean Air spokesman told CBC News.

The flight was diverted to the airbase at Comox, on Vancouver Island, escorted by U.S. air force F-15 fighter jets that had been scrambled from Portland, Ore., according to Victoria's Search and Rescue Co-ordination Centre.

Another threat was phoned in on Monday against Korean Air Flight 72 before it took off, forcing a two-hour delay as RCMP cleared passengers off the aircraft to check for explosive devices, said James Koh, of Korean Air's Vancouver office...
Bomb threat forces Korean Air jet to land in B.C. - World - CBC News
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 08:20
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Air Koryo. DPRK National Airline :

Airbubba;

The EU restrictions on Air Koryo are politically motivated, everyone is aware of that. The fixed reviews mentioned as part of your You Tube posting are somewhat top heavy with american gutter talk so I dont think they count for much.
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 09:52
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Air Koryo is the perfect airline. Such talk impuning it are jealous lies. ALL HAIL THE GREAT LEADER for his wisdom in running an airline with such customer satisfaction.
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 18:46
  #96 (permalink)  
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Restrictions on Air Koryo GAC- AOC/KOR- 01 KOR DPRK All fleet with the exception of: 2 aircraft of type TU- 204 P-632 P- 633. Just for info.
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 20:34
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Sincerely hope the Canadian authorities are able to get to the bottom of this bomb threat, and get their hands on whomever initiated it.
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Old 12th Apr 2012, 18:49
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Korean Air flight resumes journey after bomb threat | CTV News
Korean Air flight resumes journey after bomb threat
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Old 7th May 2012, 21:29
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Angel

Re Slasher's 7 April post with the Korean Air video:

Interesting account, though one wonders if the improvements mentioned are actually in effect. "Flight International" years ago published a report of studies done regarding Asian crewmembers and Western crewmembers in several combinations- Western captain, Asian F/O, and the reverse, all Asian and all Western crews. It mentioned the cultural differences (particularly deference to senior/older captains by junior/younger Asian F/Os) as possible sources for concern.

This video is all reminiscent of that, which was published decades ago, if memory serves.

We still some of the military attitudes in US cockpits, but not to any real degree.

I have a friend, an experienced international captain and now a TRI/TRE, who has been lectured by a green co-pilot who graduated from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University. I flew with an F/O who was the same way, believing he was much better prepared than mere pilots. My friend bristled at the young man's attitude.

"Why, lighten up," I advised him. "You might learn something. Don't you know Embry Riddle graduates know absolutely everything?"

It would be interesting to see how US contractors- mostly ex-US military, I presume, are training Afghan Air Force pilots on some 200 Mil-8 helicopters the US has ordered for them. I saw one video where an Afghan pilot complained he and his compatriots had flown them for years, and had much more experience in type and in country than the highly paid US instructors, who were imposing US military procedures on them, would ever have.

Anybody placing bets on the Afghan Air Force ever becoming an effective organization? I think all they have now is a few C-27s and Cessna Caravans.

Seems like a huge waste of millions (if not billions) of dollars. At least the Brits seem to be wising up a little faster.

Last edited by taildrag; 7th May 2012 at 21:49. Reason: date order
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Old 8th May 2012, 10:09
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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At least the Brits seem to be wising up a little faster.
Don't think so! Successive UK governments have committed the most appalling expensive blunders, culminating in the Cameron government which is actually worse than Brown's, not that we thought such a thing was possible! Billions wasted on Nimrod for one, got us a topline (expensive) fighter (Typhoon) leaving us with not much else, cancelled Harriers without anything to replace them (selling at bargain basement to the US marines AFTER a $150 million upgrade), left us undefendable without any carriers while we wait for 2 new carriers which won't take the fighter planned for it (or even operate both at all)...... No Sir, don't use the expression 'wise' and Britain in the same sentence now- we are actually making more mistakes than the current Washington administration thanks to politicians beyond description! We have to ban politicians from the playing fields of Eton and north of our (English) border...it's the only answer!
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