two too old to fly together.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
two too old to fly together.
How about that...
Plane grounded due to pilots' ages - Outcome Magazine
LOT from London to Warsaw delayed
.
Plane grounded due to pilots' ages - Outcome Magazine
LOT from London to Warsaw delayed
.
What a waste!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Glasgow
Age: 73
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[sarcasm detector on]
captplaystation
How would you have handled this particular case?
[sarcasm detector off]
SFS
captplaystation
Why am I NOT surprised that they were rumbled in good old YOO KAY ? 
[sarcasm detector off]
SFS
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do explain please captplaystation. Did you perhaps mean that those charged with maintaining the rules and regulations shuld simply have turned a blind eye? What would you have said if this apparent oversight had ended badly? Who would you have blamed then, the CAA or LOT? Do you really want sloppy workmanship from the authorities? Is that what happens where you are? If so, please let me know and I'll avoid the place and your airline (always supposing it isn't MSFS) like the plague.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In 2006 the International Civil Aviation Authority required pilots over the age of 60 to be paired with pilots under 60 after it extended the maximum age to 65.
Any crash caused by 2 pilots because they were both over 60? Or that's just mad regulation out of the blue? Do they think they saved the day and the crew was about to crash?
Regulation from 2006? 6 years later, by how much the life span has increased anyway?
How much valid could be this kind of regulation with time passing by since?
I was told that the most dangerous pilots are the young ones below 2000 hours total time, why is there no regulation concerning age in this case?
Why not: not flight possible for a 22 years old without being paired with a 60 years old pilot?
I am against this age racism. But I support safety 1000% So for the older I would love to see severe medical AND sim check very regularly (3 months?), and as far as they pass, then why setting an age limit when some pilots are healthier at 61 than some others at 51?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aggregating some marginal gains.
Age: 45
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bugger!
You would think that its a bunch of rubbish, but not so........
ICAO
ICAO | FLS | FAQs
Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft, subject to conditions. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
1) Pilot-in-Command aged 60-64 years of age
In accordance with Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the amendment means that if a pilot-in-command (PIC) is 60 years of age or over but less than 65 years of age and is engaged in operations with more than one pilot, he/she cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating in airports or the airspace of any ICAO Contracting State as long as at least one other pilot is under 60 years of age. For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years. A State may impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in § 2.1.10.1 for the licenses it issues but it cannot prevent, by reason of age, an aircraft from another State operated by a PIC holding a licence issued or validated by that State, who is below the ICAO upper age limit, from operating in the airspace above its territory.
2) Pilot-in-Command 65 years of age and over
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated. Those seeking information concerning States that may authorize pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 65 years are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities
3) Augmented crews
In commercial long-range air transport, the designated flight crew may be augmented, and can number three, four or even more pilots. In the case of flight crew comprising more than two pilots, the intent of § 2.1.10.1 is to ensure that, when the pilot-in-command is over 60 but less than 65 years of age, the operating flight crew includes at least one other pilot, who is licensed, appropriately rated for all phases of flight, current, and younger than 60 years of age. It is suggested that during high workload phases of flight (such as flight below 10,000 feet above ground level) at least one pilot seated at the controls should be under 60 years of age.
4) Medical Assessment
When over 60, a six-monthly medical assessment is necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical assessment for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations).
Sorry guys and girls, that was a copy and paste but the quote thingie didn't work
ICAO
ICAO | FLS | FAQs
Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft, subject to conditions. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
1) Pilot-in-Command aged 60-64 years of age
In accordance with Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the amendment means that if a pilot-in-command (PIC) is 60 years of age or over but less than 65 years of age and is engaged in operations with more than one pilot, he/she cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating in airports or the airspace of any ICAO Contracting State as long as at least one other pilot is under 60 years of age. For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years. A State may impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in § 2.1.10.1 for the licenses it issues but it cannot prevent, by reason of age, an aircraft from another State operated by a PIC holding a licence issued or validated by that State, who is below the ICAO upper age limit, from operating in the airspace above its territory.
2) Pilot-in-Command 65 years of age and over
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated. Those seeking information concerning States that may authorize pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 65 years are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities
3) Augmented crews
In commercial long-range air transport, the designated flight crew may be augmented, and can number three, four or even more pilots. In the case of flight crew comprising more than two pilots, the intent of § 2.1.10.1 is to ensure that, when the pilot-in-command is over 60 but less than 65 years of age, the operating flight crew includes at least one other pilot, who is licensed, appropriately rated for all phases of flight, current, and younger than 60 years of age. It is suggested that during high workload phases of flight (such as flight below 10,000 feet above ground level) at least one pilot seated at the controls should be under 60 years of age.
4) Medical Assessment
When over 60, a six-monthly medical assessment is necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical assessment for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations).
Sorry guys and girls, that was a copy and paste but the quote thingie didn't work
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was no choice was there ? but I cannot help wondering what other country would have had anal jobsworths who actually even bothered to check the two guys DOB's on their licence/passports . . . . . . nope, can't think of another one. 
Oh & BTW, I am British, so I know EXACTLY where I am coming from before you start accusing me of "Brit-Bashing", which I assuredly am
Oh, & have a read of the thread about the 67 year old ex-fireman who was harassed by LGW security for making a sideways remark about someone else going through security without removing their head-gear, if you want a real skinfull of the "British Jobsworth Experience"
Oh & BTW, I am British, so I know EXACTLY where I am coming from before you start accusing me of "Brit-Bashing", which I assuredly am
Oh, & have a read of the thread about the 67 year old ex-fireman who was harassed by LGW security for making a sideways remark about someone else going through security without removing their head-gear, if you want a real skinfull of the "British Jobsworth Experience"
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rules are rules, but I'd love to know what statistical logic was used by those persons who thought that rule up. I'd say that the odds of two 60-65 year olds becoming incapacitated on the same flight are no higher (probably less) than a double engine failure on a twin jet. I'd go as far as saying that statistically more pilots have become incapacitated under the age of 60 than over.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kerikeri New Zealand
Age: 89
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I got into the industry the max age was 50 but could be extended on a year by year basis to 55(54 and 364days).
In NZ one cannot be dismissed because of age gender(?) or race in any industry.
We had a couple of old grumpy men about 15 years ago who threw hissy fits because they could not fly to USA but operate only on regional and domestic flights.They were 70 in one case and 68 in the other, if my memory serves me correctly.
Strangely the question must be asked, what about our Politicians?
They have no limits on age, perks expences, travel, and in most cases salaries.
At the end of the equation I have a feeling that politicions are at the background of these dopey rule makers.
Statistically the causacian male is more at risk from cardio pulmanary attacks beween 43 and 48 years of age. Maybe we should prevent all males from flying commercially between those ages.
In NZ one cannot be dismissed because of age gender(?) or race in any industry.
We had a couple of old grumpy men about 15 years ago who threw hissy fits because they could not fly to USA but operate only on regional and domestic flights.They were 70 in one case and 68 in the other, if my memory serves me correctly.
Strangely the question must be asked, what about our Politicians?
They have no limits on age, perks expences, travel, and in most cases salaries.
At the end of the equation I have a feeling that politicions are at the background of these dopey rule makers.
Statistically the causacian male is more at risk from cardio pulmanary attacks beween 43 and 48 years of age. Maybe we should prevent all males from flying commercially between those ages.
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North-West England
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rules. Sometimes they can be very stupid, but in theory they need to be complied with and if necessary challenged through official channels.
Of course, the Nazis were elected by the then-existing rules and these hateful people then proceeded to govern by their newly-created rules.
Rules are not always right. No hard and fast rules exist.
Of course, the Nazis were elected by the then-existing rules and these hateful people then proceeded to govern by their newly-created rules.
Rules are not always right. No hard and fast rules exist.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aggregating some marginal gains.
Age: 45
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A stupid law. Yes. Then perhaps no. If anything it ensures that us young(er) fullas and fulessas get the wise and informed views/experience of the older generation (Who actually grew up FLYING aeroplanes). If anyone was to blame on this it was the crew rostering chaps. Surely they should know the rules! All I know is that the Law is indeed an Ass. But Asses have big ears and have a nasty bite. Crappy situation to land in.