Jet Airways "Supernumerary" Landed Jet--not reported
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What am I missing? The only place anything has been written about the guy "landing the jet" is in the inept title of this thread. As far as I can tell, he just sat there. My labrador could have handled that.
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Not that it matters.... the fact he was in the seat is enough.. but from the DGCA
The aviation regulator has asked Jet Airways (India) Ltd to explain why it allowed a trainee pilot to land a packed flight in Mumbai in October, violating safety norms.
The regulator has summoned the airline’s chief of flight safety and the chief of operations on Monday after it received a complaint this month that the airline had failed to report to the regulator that a commander allowed a trainee pilot to land the flight.
The aviation regulator has asked Jet Airways (India) Ltd to explain why it allowed a trainee pilot to land a packed flight in Mumbai in October, violating safety norms.
The regulator has summoned the airline’s chief of flight safety and the chief of operations on Monday after it received a complaint this month that the airline had failed to report to the regulator that a commander allowed a trainee pilot to land the flight.
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Reading way too much into this, the CPT screwed up by allowing his F/O (probably in his arrogance) to have the potential to gain a seinority number. Did the CPT make the correct decision? No, but for what reason? Domestic squabble folks, time to move on..
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Grounded...
But what about the company failing to disclose this information to the regulator as required by their SMS system?
Now the First Officer who made the report is suspsended, what about the non punative reporting system?
But what about the company failing to disclose this information to the regulator as required by their SMS system?
Now the First Officer who made the report is suspsended, what about the non punative reporting system?
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Without question, the first officer should have refused to give up his seat. If the discussion between he and his captain became heated, he could have pulled the CVR CB once on station and requested a download of the conversation, and let the facts and voice transcription speak for themselves.
It's worked in the past too. Better than he said, she said.
That said the F/O deserves some disciplinary action too.
It's worked in the past too. Better than he said, she said.
That said the F/O deserves some disciplinary action too.
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I’ve yet to see the phrase “Domestic squabble” included in any NTSB or other Air Accidents investigation findings involving pilot error. It’s more likely to be “Crew did not adhere to company standard operating procedures (SOPs)” – as in this instance. I believe all three crewmembers to be culpable with the Captain bearing the most blame. However, a culture has been allowed to develop in Jet Airways that permits too many holes of the Swiss cheese accident model to be aligned. Unless Jet Airways addresses the root cause of the problem – "management" – one day, a perfect alignment will result in a hull loss as with Gulf Air 072.
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DGCA orders removal of Jet
DGCA orders removal of Jet’s chief of flight safety
Feb 14 2012
The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) ordered the removal of Jet Airways (India) Ltd’s chief of flight safety Vishesh Oberoi for failing to perform his duty as the airline’s top safety manager, a first in recent times.
The regulator took the action against Jet Airways for allowing a trainee pilot to land a packed flight on 14 October in Mumbai, violating safety norms. DGCA had summoned Jet officials for an explanation on Monday.
The airline was also found to have violated rules, including not informing the regulator about the incident, Mint reported on 13 February.
Jet Airways chief executive Nikos Kardasis, along with other officials, had an hour-long meeting with Bharat Bhushan, the director general of civil aviation, on Monday, said a government official who declined to be named.
“The head of flight safety has been ordered to be removed immediately for failing to perform his duties,” the official said. A second government official confirmed the move and added that the airline has to inform the regulator on the appointment of a new chief of flight safety.
A Jet spokesperson declined to respond to an email. Phone calls and text messages seeking comment remained unanswered.
DGCA approves the chief of flight safety for each airline. The official is directly responsible to the regulator and is required to make regular reports about matters of safety. An airline is expected to voluntarily report safety issues to the regulator, including minor snags.
DGCA came to know of the incident through a complaint on 5 February.
“About four months back, Jet Airways captain Sheikh Ahmed was operating a flight into Mumbai along with F/O (flight officer) Khajuria (co-pilot). There was a supernumerary pilot on board. I understand that the captain asked the first officer to vacate his seat and he permitted the supernumerary pilot to occupy the right seat for the landing,” the complaint said. “This is a very serious violation and endangers the lives of all on board. I understand Khajuria gave a written complaint. There appears to be an intervention from someone to soften the action against the captain, who was merely suspended for three months and is now back to flying as a captain.”
The complaint asked if “the airline inform(ed) the DGCA of this serious violation? If they did, what action did DGCA take and was this recorded in the list of violations in the safety audit conducted? If they did not report this, what action will DGCA take against the pilot and the airline?”
The licence of the commander has been suspended, according to DGCA.
It, however, remains to be seen if his flying licence will be cancelled too as DGCA has done in past cases, said Mohan Ranganathan, an air safety expert and member of the government-appointed Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council. “DGCA should not stop with action against the flight safety head. A clear message has to go to all airlines that such violations will not be tolerated. A strong action against the airline is also warranted for hiding this incident,” he said.
DGCA orders removal of Jet’s chief of flight safety
Feb 14 2012
The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) ordered the removal of Jet Airways (India) Ltd’s chief of flight safety Vishesh Oberoi for failing to perform his duty as the airline’s top safety manager, a first in recent times.
The regulator took the action against Jet Airways for allowing a trainee pilot to land a packed flight on 14 October in Mumbai, violating safety norms. DGCA had summoned Jet officials for an explanation on Monday.
The airline was also found to have violated rules, including not informing the regulator about the incident, Mint reported on 13 February.
Jet Airways chief executive Nikos Kardasis, along with other officials, had an hour-long meeting with Bharat Bhushan, the director general of civil aviation, on Monday, said a government official who declined to be named.
“The head of flight safety has been ordered to be removed immediately for failing to perform his duties,” the official said. A second government official confirmed the move and added that the airline has to inform the regulator on the appointment of a new chief of flight safety.
A Jet spokesperson declined to respond to an email. Phone calls and text messages seeking comment remained unanswered.
DGCA approves the chief of flight safety for each airline. The official is directly responsible to the regulator and is required to make regular reports about matters of safety. An airline is expected to voluntarily report safety issues to the regulator, including minor snags.
DGCA came to know of the incident through a complaint on 5 February.
“About four months back, Jet Airways captain Sheikh Ahmed was operating a flight into Mumbai along with F/O (flight officer) Khajuria (co-pilot). There was a supernumerary pilot on board. I understand that the captain asked the first officer to vacate his seat and he permitted the supernumerary pilot to occupy the right seat for the landing,” the complaint said. “This is a very serious violation and endangers the lives of all on board. I understand Khajuria gave a written complaint. There appears to be an intervention from someone to soften the action against the captain, who was merely suspended for three months and is now back to flying as a captain.”
The complaint asked if “the airline inform(ed) the DGCA of this serious violation? If they did, what action did DGCA take and was this recorded in the list of violations in the safety audit conducted? If they did not report this, what action will DGCA take against the pilot and the airline?”
The licence of the commander has been suspended, according to DGCA.
It, however, remains to be seen if his flying licence will be cancelled too as DGCA has done in past cases, said Mohan Ranganathan, an air safety expert and member of the government-appointed Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council. “DGCA should not stop with action against the flight safety head. A clear message has to go to all airlines that such violations will not be tolerated. A strong action against the airline is also warranted for hiding this incident,” he said.
Methinks the First Officer was placed in a difficult position. That said the legal obligation is to obey all "lawful commands" that the Commander makes. Clearly this was an "unlawful command" IMHO which the First Officer would have been quite entitled to disregard - how he would go about that is another matter!
This was a serious breach of the regulations if the facts are as reported. The Commander has a clear obligation to act lawfully.
This was a serious breach of the regulations if the facts are as reported. The Commander has a clear obligation to act lawfully.
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Well... hopefully the SNY will take the importance Company SOPs and Air Regulations this all the way to their retirement.
Too bad the F/O demonstrated his subservient nature. Not the makings of a skipper or an asset to the flight deck either.
Too bad the F/O demonstrated his subservient nature. Not the makings of a skipper or an asset to the flight deck either.
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You see thats the funny thing about Indian aviation.They dont tackle the right and fundamental problem..ie,no base training and app/landing training for new pilots yet they want to be seen as tough so they go spectacularly overboard and revoke this Captains licence.So its okay for newly released co-pilots with no back-up(3rd pilot) to act as competent P2 without being able to land(or dare I say it even fly the thing) yet this infringement, whilst unwise, merits a sacking and revocation of licence????When you sign someone off,surely you are saying he/she is competent as P2..ie,he/she can take over in event of P1 incapacitation and at the very minimum effect a safe landing.The DGCA says this isnt important.A plane can fly with a Captain and a P2 who is takeoff/land restricted and with no safety pilot in the event P1 kicks the bucket.They cant see the forrest for the trees.Kind of like saying you can kill someone with that gun but make sure your gun licence is valid...
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How many agencies advertise how many B737 jobs in how many Indian Airlines on how many websites EVERY day . . . . .and yet, I don't , & will not apply.
I do, sometimes , get it right.
As said, FO is also in the sh1t.
Passing 10,000'. . . "Get that guy out of there SIR" , no response, grab the radio , declare an emergency, tell P3 if he doesn't move his sorry ass he is REALLY in the sh1t, Oh, and pull the CVR CB after landing. Simples.
However, if we look at P2's actions in Islamabad * as the aircraft was CFIT'd into the ground, are we REALLY surprised ?
Lovely country, lovely food, lovely people. . . but to pursue professional aviation, Er. . no thanks
* Edited to say, I do know we are talking a different country here, but I doubt if the cultural issues are as far apart as the "other" issues pertaining.
I do, sometimes , get it right.
As said, FO is also in the sh1t.
Passing 10,000'. . . "Get that guy out of there SIR" , no response, grab the radio , declare an emergency, tell P3 if he doesn't move his sorry ass he is REALLY in the sh1t, Oh, and pull the CVR CB after landing. Simples.
However, if we look at P2's actions in Islamabad * as the aircraft was CFIT'd into the ground, are we REALLY surprised ?
Lovely country, lovely food, lovely people. . . but to pursue professional aviation, Er. . no thanks
* Edited to say, I do know we are talking a different country here, but I doubt if the cultural issues are as far apart as the "other" issues pertaining.
To put an unqualified pilot in an operational seat in a non emergency situation invalidates the insurance on the aircraft. Any captain who makes a decision like that should not continue in the job as his decision making abilities have been exposed. If I did that in my company I would be out the door and rightly so.
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Actor pulls strings, gets Jet pilot reinstated
NEW DELHI: A Jet Airways flight from Chennai to Mumbai was landed by a trainee pilot on the instructions of the Captain of the flight. While the Captain was suspended internally for this violation of safety norms and playing with the lives of 200 people on board, he was later reinstated on the recommendation of a renowned Bollywood actor. However, the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) in its usual show for priority to safety has suspended the Chief of Flight Safety of the airline who had little role in the incident.
The story unfolds like this: On October 14, Jet Airways Captain Sheikh Ahmed was operating a flight from Chennai to Mumbai along with First Officer Khajuria and a charming supernumerary pilot in the jump seat. Soon, Ahmed asked Khajuria to vacate his seat and permitted the supernumerary pilot to sit there. “When a flight is at a height of 10,000 feet or lower the cockpit has to become a sterile zone... In this case, when Khajuria asked the Captain to seat him back, Captain Ahmed ignored his plea and went on to allow the lady supernumerary pilot to land, in gross violation of safety,” said a Jet Airways official in Mumbai.Khajuria made an internal complaint about the incident with Chief of Flight Safety, Vishesh Oberoi, who suspended Captain Ahmed for three months. But, his suspension was revoked on January 3 by the Chief Pilot of Jet Airways’ 737 fleet. Airline sources told Express that it was done after a Bollywood actor, close to Ahmed, spoke to the airline’s top brass to soften their stand.
The story unfolds like this: On October 14, Jet Airways Captain Sheikh Ahmed was operating a flight from Chennai to Mumbai along with First Officer Khajuria and a charming supernumerary pilot in the jump seat. Soon, Ahmed asked Khajuria to vacate his seat and permitted the supernumerary pilot to sit there. “When a flight is at a height of 10,000 feet or lower the cockpit has to become a sterile zone... In this case, when Khajuria asked the Captain to seat him back, Captain Ahmed ignored his plea and went on to allow the lady supernumerary pilot to land, in gross violation of safety,” said a Jet Airways official in Mumbai.Khajuria made an internal complaint about the incident with Chief of Flight Safety, Vishesh Oberoi, who suspended Captain Ahmed for three months. But, his suspension was revoked on January 3 by the Chief Pilot of Jet Airways’ 737 fleet. Airline sources told Express that it was done after a Bollywood actor, close to Ahmed, spoke to the airline’s top brass to soften their stand.
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Did somebody say banana republic? I hang my head in shame as an Indian at the pure unadulterated BS that goes on here.
An honest and ruthless overhaul of the system is required to purge this place of it's garbage. Well, who am I kidding, it's never gonna happen.
I have said it before, aviation along with everything else here survives on providence. Even when that runs out nothing ever changes, case in point the AIX crash.
Shame on the captain for pulling this stunt, shame on jet for covering it up, that too at the behest of some two bit amateur actor, and shame on the DGCA for letting things get this bad.
An honest and ruthless overhaul of the system is required to purge this place of it's garbage. Well, who am I kidding, it's never gonna happen.
I have said it before, aviation along with everything else here survives on providence. Even when that runs out nothing ever changes, case in point the AIX crash.
Shame on the captain for pulling this stunt, shame on jet for covering it up, that too at the behest of some two bit amateur actor, and shame on the DGCA for letting things get this bad.
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Again, this is a news paper report. Let's face it the quality of jouralism, if you can use that term, in India is not the most reliable. Perhaps other coutries should sit up and take notice regarding the quality of oversight and policing, or perhaps the lack thereof, within the DGCA itself.
There was a blurb on CNBC and CNN about the incident. They did not mention about the Bollywood wannabe actor interceding.
Here's a message to Mr. Bollywood... Take your talent and powers or pursuastion off to Syria where more important issues are at hand
! Have your buddy flyi there himself.
There was a blurb on CNBC and CNN about the incident. They did not mention about the Bollywood wannabe actor interceding.
Here's a message to Mr. Bollywood... Take your talent and powers or pursuastion off to Syria where more important issues are at hand
! Have your buddy flyi there himself.
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Maybe the more respected airlines in the world should review if Jet Airways is fit to operate code share flights on their behalf.
If an incident like this occurred you can't bet your bottom dollar it is not an isolated incident.
If an incident like this occurred you can't bet your bottom dollar it is not an isolated incident.
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Maybe the more respected airlines in the world should review if Jet Airways is fit to operate code share flights on their behalf.