FAA to issue new rest rules!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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These two air heads must actually be convinced that pilots flying cargo are less fatigued than pilots flying pax.
Here is a post from over five years ago, since then FedEx has had yet another widebody hull loss, the fatal MD-11 crash at NRT in 2009:
Airbubba 29th Jul 2006, 16:57
>>by now FED EX must have one of the worst hull loss records in the industry!
Sadly, FedEx seems to have a widebody hull loss every two or three years. If they were a pax carrier there would be enormous adverse publicity and probably many casualties as well.
I've got friends over at FedEx who tell me the FAA has been all over their training for years now. Instead of annual AQP sim checks like most U.S. carriers, they are under a closely monitored old style six month program.
The pilot flying in the December 2003 MD-10 hard landing and fire at MEM had a history of busted checkrides before she was hired. In April, 1994 the feds pulled her ATP after an FAA inspector observed her performance. She took more training and got the ATP back and was hired by FedEx in 1996. At FedEx she had more checkride failures, a couple of DUI's and an altitude bust that set up the fateful Mad Dog line check back into MEM. Is it possible that "diversity" was promoted over performance in this case? A possibly similar precedent at FedEx was the overlooked poor employment history of Auburn Calloway who brutally attempted to hijack a FedEx DC-10 in MEM in 1994.
Traditionally, FedEx has had very high employment standards for the freight world, i.e. almost all pilots have college degrees (well, there are some Naval Academy graduates <g>) and many are like the founder [I stand corrected, Fred was an officer but not an Aviator in the Marine Corps-Airbubba], Fred Smith, ex-military aviators. The company is consistently profitable and maintenance is excellent by most accounts.
Still, the mishaps and hull losses continue at what everyone agrees is an unacceptable rate...
>>by now FED EX must have one of the worst hull loss records in the industry!
Sadly, FedEx seems to have a widebody hull loss every two or three years. If they were a pax carrier there would be enormous adverse publicity and probably many casualties as well.
I've got friends over at FedEx who tell me the FAA has been all over their training for years now. Instead of annual AQP sim checks like most U.S. carriers, they are under a closely monitored old style six month program.
The pilot flying in the December 2003 MD-10 hard landing and fire at MEM had a history of busted checkrides before she was hired. In April, 1994 the feds pulled her ATP after an FAA inspector observed her performance. She took more training and got the ATP back and was hired by FedEx in 1996. At FedEx she had more checkride failures, a couple of DUI's and an altitude bust that set up the fateful Mad Dog line check back into MEM. Is it possible that "diversity" was promoted over performance in this case? A possibly similar precedent at FedEx was the overlooked poor employment history of Auburn Calloway who brutally attempted to hijack a FedEx DC-10 in MEM in 1994.
Traditionally, FedEx has had very high employment standards for the freight world, i.e. almost all pilots have college degrees (well, there are some Naval Academy graduates <g>) and many are like the founder [I stand corrected, Fred was an officer but not an Aviator in the Marine Corps-Airbubba], Fred Smith, ex-military aviators. The company is consistently profitable and maintenance is excellent by most accounts.
Still, the mishaps and hull losses continue at what everyone agrees is an unacceptable rate...
Shore Guy recounts earlier FedEx mishaps in the thread above:
Shore Guy 29th Jul 2006, 23:58
To my recollection, this will be the sixth hull loss for Fedex in recent history.
Going from memory here....not necessarily in chronological order.
MD-10 MEM July, 2006 (looks like a hull loss)
MD-10 MEM 2003
B727 Tallahassee, Fl.
DC-10 Stewart, N.Y. (Aircraft landed ok, burnt due to undeclared hazmat - sound familiar?). I was right behind him that morning....diverted to EWR.
MD-11 Subic Bay - as I recall, there were split airspeed indications, and they slaved the good one to the bad ADC. Went off runway end at high speed....aircraft broke apart, but crew ok.
MD-11 - EWR “Turtle” accident……
To my recollection, this will be the sixth hull loss for Fedex in recent history.
Going from memory here....not necessarily in chronological order.
MD-10 MEM July, 2006 (looks like a hull loss)
MD-10 MEM 2003
B727 Tallahassee, Fl.
DC-10 Stewart, N.Y. (Aircraft landed ok, burnt due to undeclared hazmat - sound familiar?). I was right behind him that morning....diverted to EWR.
MD-11 Subic Bay - as I recall, there were split airspeed indications, and they slaved the good one to the bad ADC. Went off runway end at high speed....aircraft broke apart, but crew ok.
MD-11 - EWR “Turtle” accident……
Will FedEx ever go five years without a hull loss? And do the feds care? Since no pax are involved is the loss rate just the acceptable cost of doing business? In my view there is definitely a double standard here and it is being continued in the new rest rules.
Trash du Blanc
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We are all AQP now.
And that list leaves off the Fx80 MD11 crash in Narita (2009) and a bad MD11 tailstrike in Subic (2006 - 11 million to repair).
You're right - just don't have the visibility of the pax carriers. If the UPS Dubai incident last year had been a pax 747, you'd still be feeling the shockwaves....
And that list leaves off the Fx80 MD11 crash in Narita (2009) and a bad MD11 tailstrike in Subic (2006 - 11 million to repair).
You're right - just don't have the visibility of the pax carriers. If the UPS Dubai incident last year had been a pax 747, you'd still be feeling the shockwaves....
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UPS Pilots union to sue FAA over new rest rules
In the balance of Safety and $$$ the FAA set's a double standard.
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Bloomberg
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Bloomberg
The union representing United Parcel Service Inc. (UPS) pilots plans to file suit today to challenge the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s decision to exempt cargo pilots from rules to protect against fatigue.
The Independent Pilots Association will file the suit in federal court, Brian Gaudet, the union’s spokesman, said in an e-mailed press release.
The FAA yielded to “unprecedented industry pressure” when it exempted cargo airlines in the new rules, Robert Travis, president of the IPA, said yesterday after the regulation was published.
The FAA rules, which take effect in two years, require that passenger-airline pilots work shorter shifts and get longer rest periods. It was the first revision of rest rules since 1985.
While the agency had proposed applying the new measures to cargo-carrier pilots, the final rule exempted them because the costs were too steep, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said yesterday.
Mike Mangeot, a UPS spokesman, didn’t immediately respond to a call and e-mail seeking comment.
The Independent Pilots Association will file the suit in federal court, Brian Gaudet, the union’s spokesman, said in an e-mailed press release.
The FAA yielded to “unprecedented industry pressure” when it exempted cargo airlines in the new rules, Robert Travis, president of the IPA, said yesterday after the regulation was published.
The FAA rules, which take effect in two years, require that passenger-airline pilots work shorter shifts and get longer rest periods. It was the first revision of rest rules since 1985.
While the agency had proposed applying the new measures to cargo-carrier pilots, the final rule exempted them because the costs were too steep, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said yesterday.
Mike Mangeot, a UPS spokesman, didn’t immediately respond to a call and e-mail seeking comment.
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This is all well and good. However, the dirty little secret in the indistry is commuting. If there is no way to ensure that pilots check into their hotel 10 hours before their duty cycle begins, all this is null and void.People will continue to commute all night long and fly all day and still be considered legal.A good way to go is to include commuting as duty time too----kind of like dead heading.
But, I am cyncial enough to admit that the airlines will never let that happen.
So, while the FAA can keep patting themselves on the back,I will continue to firmly believe that everything changes and yet, nothing changes.
Alt3
But, I am cyncial enough to admit that the airlines will never let that happen.
So, while the FAA can keep patting themselves on the back,I will continue to firmly believe that everything changes and yet, nothing changes.
Alt3
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The proposed EASA FTL in Europe may well also exclude Air Cargo Operators at the beginning also.
On the commuting front at the airline i work at (UK Night Freight) the issue of commuters is handled (because they jumpseat on Company aircraft) by a variation where crews come on duty 90 mins after the STD of the jumpseat flight.
On the commuting front at the airline i work at (UK Night Freight) the issue of commuters is handled (because they jumpseat on Company aircraft) by a variation where crews come on duty 90 mins after the STD of the jumpseat flight.
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FAA FTL rules
...not applicable to cargo operations. Looking at the source document, Foreign Applicability is not well defined from what I have read so far. Hypothetically speaking, if these new rules were to be imposed on foreign carriers operating into the USA, I wonder how the issue of cargo operations would be applied. Personally, I fly for a foreign carrier on a fleet which is comprised of half freighters and half pax aircraft. I could easily operate a couple cargo flights long haul then a pax flight to the USA. Does this mean that my cargo flight duty would not be considered towards the FTL for the pax flight? Many foreign carriers have a mix of freight/pax aircraft of the same type; example, Emirates, Cathay, Korean, Asiana, Singapore, Air France, the list goes on... Just pondering. 
PAXboy,
The domestic rules have not changed much since a revision in 1985 that allowed a shorter rest period if the next one was longer and the flag and supplemental rules were issued in 1965.
The domestic rules have not changed much since a revision in 1985 that allowed a shorter rest period if the next one was longer and the flag and supplemental rules were issued in 1965.
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The proposal of FAA for pilots rest time, came to late !!!
FAA must be starting checking all air line Companies, many of them, forcing and obliging crews to fly without having the rest time....
FAA must be starting checking all air line Companies, many of them, forcing and obliging crews to fly without having the rest time....
