Eurolot pilots took off from taxiway
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Saudia does. Sometimes counterproductive thing, BTW. Goes off in the middle of the checklist or ATC takeoff clearance and screws up the whole process. Taking in account that average pilot never confuses the RW, then every takeoff RAAS message interfering with procedures and communication poses another safety threat.
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I bet most have never heard of it, or even know that it is equipped on a significant percentage of private/corporate jets.
You can call them bean counters, but of course they make decisions that are far beyond your pay grade.
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think we need to forget ( about all these fancy GPS/What have you systems and get back to basics, where pilots actually piloted aircraft...
IE, be in the right place at the right time on you're own reckoning
Simplistic response but basically true?
IE, be in the right place at the right time on you're own reckoning
Simplistic response but basically true?
Simplistic indeed. Having been in Wroclaw often, my first thought was: how could they? But we are all humans and maybe there is a pilot/crew that never make a mistake. I have yet to meet them, including myself here I have seen many mistakes made. Even by people I consider to be better pilots than I am.
Ground markings/signing is a huge issue IMO and the fact that these incidents happen time and again speaks volumes. Dunno about the ATR, but my airplane for example has no wipers, just a repellent on the shield plus a fan that clears a cigarette box sized part on the inner, lower corners of the windshield. Add light shining in your face and you see nothing.
BTW, if not knowing where you are wouldnt be an issue, EGWS would not have been developed, don´t you think?
Last edited by His dudeness; 19th Nov 2011 at 10:42.
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A bad day for the pilots, thankfully no tragedy from this. A lesson and a reminder for us all; **** do happen every now and then...to mitigate the threats in such a scenario require utmost vigilance and discipline.
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Akali Dal, Kalistan's post is very refreshing and a welcomed change from all the usual crap driven ones from those miscreants with a holier than you facade.
The RAAS is really a wonderful tool; I just hope it doesn't lull us into absolute complacency or consign good airmanship to irrelevance.
The RAAS is really a wonderful tool; I just hope it doesn't lull us into absolute complacency or consign good airmanship to irrelevance.
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The RAAS is really a wonderful tool; I just hope it doesn't lull us into absolute complacency or consign good airmanship to irrelevance.
It should be designed as an alarm system, that only speaks (warns) when something does not go according to plan.
Maybe you feed the taxiclearance into a box, and it should show you your position and route on the EFBmap, going into alert if you deviate from it.
Nic
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The other issue with it is that on certain runways it calls approaching the runway only after passing the holding point.
So it won't always protect from a runway incursion if you have missed the holding point in low viz conditions!
So it won't always protect from a runway incursion if you have missed the holding point in low viz conditions!
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Maybe you feed the taxiclearance into a box, and it should show you your position and route on the EFBmap, going into alert if you deviate from it.
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A tool is a tool, not God!
Quote:
The RAAS is really a wonderful tool; I just hope it doesn't lull us into absolute complacency or consign good airmanship to irrelevance.
Actually I think it is pretty bad. It constantly states the obvious "Approaching RWY 26R". By constantly announcing this, the perception of the "callout" slowly sinks towards the subconscious. I hope I will realise it calling out the wrong number, if it happens to me. It behaves as if GPWS would call a terrain warning on every approach. The only thing is the "on taxiway, on taxiway" call, that might save a bad one someday. I just find it psychologically underdeveloped.
It should be designed as an alarm system, that only speaks (warns) when something does not go according to plan.
Maybe you feed the taxiclearance into a box, and it should show you your position and route on the EFBmap, going into alert if you deviate from it.
Nic
The RAAS is really a wonderful tool; I just hope it doesn't lull us into absolute complacency or consign good airmanship to irrelevance.
Actually I think it is pretty bad. It constantly states the obvious "Approaching RWY 26R". By constantly announcing this, the perception of the "callout" slowly sinks towards the subconscious. I hope I will realise it calling out the wrong number, if it happens to me. It behaves as if GPWS would call a terrain warning on every approach. The only thing is the "on taxiway, on taxiway" call, that might save a bad one someday. I just find it psychologically underdeveloped.
It should be designed as an alarm system, that only speaks (warns) when something does not go according to plan.
Maybe you feed the taxiclearance into a box, and it should show you your position and route on the EFBmap, going into alert if you deviate from it.
Nic
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According to some Wrocław friends - the taxiway B, that was recently used as "RWY 29R" by EUROLOT's ATR-42, has presently only 1200 meters of "usable" length (due to current work on the new terminal building and the new apron facing it). There were luckily no planes parked on this taxiway on that particular morning (visiting aircraft are often parked there due to the shortage of other suitable parking spots).
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I've seen FOs helping truly well for taxing. And I've seen others unable to guide me with 10 Kms of visibility. Sorry, the ones in the second category should not be in that right seat! Simple! But somebody said they were ok in the sim and on the route check!
I don't want skygods but being able to read and understand a map and give directions is a minimum! Basics of flying, yes!
I don't want skygods but being able to read and understand a map and give directions is a minimum! Basics of flying, yes!
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what they call "recently" is years and years ago !
years ago, the taxiway B was the former runway 30 (it is 30m wide), and after the "new" Parrallel runway (58m wide) was built, at times of repairs of the 58m runway, the "old" runway (now taxiway B) 30m wide was used.
Due to magnetic variation over the years the axis was modified from 30 to 29
Nowdays taxiway B, still has the old marking 30 on it (hard to see in foggy conditions) another clue to avoid confusion.
If you know the place, it seems hard to believe to confuse a 30m wide taxiway with blue lights, no Stripes, no Runways entry signs, with a 58m wide amber/white lights, touch down zone markings and entry lights... but... they did it !! (and in 400m witch is not the end of the world !! 125m is really challenging..)
years ago, the taxiway B was the former runway 30 (it is 30m wide), and after the "new" Parrallel runway (58m wide) was built, at times of repairs of the 58m runway, the "old" runway (now taxiway B) 30m wide was used.
Due to magnetic variation over the years the axis was modified from 30 to 29
Nowdays taxiway B, still has the old marking 30 on it (hard to see in foggy conditions) another clue to avoid confusion.
If you know the place, it seems hard to believe to confuse a 30m wide taxiway with blue lights, no Stripes, no Runways entry signs, with a 58m wide amber/white lights, touch down zone markings and entry lights... but... they did it !! (and in 400m witch is not the end of the world !! 125m is really challenging..)
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arc-en-ciel
Dear arc-en-ciel,
The most RECENT use of taxiway B (in Wroclaw) as the somewhat short and narrow "RWY 29R" was on the morning of November 11th, 2011, by the RPT aircraft ....
PS According to AOPA (US), 75 percent of runway incursions are caused by general aviation pilots (I being one of them).
Ask ATC - Progressive Taxi — AOPA Live
If the above is indeed correct, 25 percent of runway incursions (in the US at least) are caused by "the big boys and girls" that could offer fewer excuses for their mistakes (since they are, or should be, more thoroughly trained; they are usually more current; they usually operate with two pairs of eyes looking out of a cockpit; some of them are being helped by RAAS, etc).
PSS In the planes I fly I do not have RAAS helping me while taxing. Instead I have the old-fashioned airport charts (from Jeppesen
).
The most RECENT use of taxiway B (in Wroclaw) as the somewhat short and narrow "RWY 29R" was on the morning of November 11th, 2011, by the RPT aircraft ....
PS According to AOPA (US), 75 percent of runway incursions are caused by general aviation pilots (I being one of them).
Ask ATC - Progressive Taxi — AOPA Live
If the above is indeed correct, 25 percent of runway incursions (in the US at least) are caused by "the big boys and girls" that could offer fewer excuses for their mistakes (since they are, or should be, more thoroughly trained; they are usually more current; they usually operate with two pairs of eyes looking out of a cockpit; some of them are being helped by RAAS, etc).
PSS In the planes I fly I do not have RAAS helping me while taxing. Instead I have the old-fashioned airport charts (from Jeppesen
).
Last edited by Antek22QR; 23rd Nov 2011 at 00:31.
