SIA 777 off the rwy at EDDM
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WOW ! don't you just love armchair psychologists, especially the ones who "flew private airplanes "
Completely off base statements like that together with the witch hunt others have been conducting from the comfort of their lounge chairs just drives home the point that you should wait for the facts to emerge before putting ones foot firmly in mouth .
Completely off base statements like that together with the witch hunt others have been conducting from the comfort of their lounge chairs just drives home the point that you should wait for the facts to emerge before putting ones foot firmly in mouth .
I flew private aircraft in Singapore about 8 or 9 years ago out of Seletar, and lived in Singapore for a few years during that timeframe.
In my experience:
The state of aviation training (when i was there at least) was a complete joke. Generally speaking, following the book was the only acceptable approach - no matter the consequences, since there was a complete lack of any ability to think out of the box
In my experience:
The state of aviation training (when i was there at least) was a complete joke. Generally speaking, following the book was the only acceptable approach - no matter the consequences, since there was a complete lack of any ability to think out of the box
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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joelnthailand - Since you chose to go the private route in Singapore we can reasonably assume you know absolutely nothing about the training system in SIA, your post confirms that. A large part of the initial training of Singapore cadets takes place in Australia with non Singaporean instructors, the cadets don't get to fly within SIA until they have achieved their basic CPL/IR.
I was working for SIA when the accident involving SQ6, (Not SQ9), happened and there was no denial, just a deep sense of shame and embarrassment, not the sort of thing one shouts from the hill tops,
it might help if you made some effort to understand the culture of the people you choose to criticise.
Since about 92% of all accidents/incidents are blamed on pilot error it is possible that this incident involved handling errors too. The German regulating authority and Boeing will establish exactly what happened and other operators will be advised so that lessons may be learned, that is standard practice, it won't be 'swept under the carpet' as so many of the anti SQ brigade will claim.
Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, it won't surprise me if, within a few weeks of the report being published, there is as much deliberate mis information here on PPRuNe about this Munich incident as there is about the SQ6 accident.
I was working for SIA when the accident involving SQ6, (Not SQ9), happened and there was no denial, just a deep sense of shame and embarrassment, not the sort of thing one shouts from the hill tops,
it might help if you made some effort to understand the culture of the people you choose to criticise.
Since about 92% of all accidents/incidents are blamed on pilot error it is possible that this incident involved handling errors too. The German regulating authority and Boeing will establish exactly what happened and other operators will be advised so that lessons may be learned, that is standard practice, it won't be 'swept under the carpet' as so many of the anti SQ brigade will claim.
Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, it won't surprise me if, within a few weeks of the report being published, there is as much deliberate mis information here on PPRuNe about this Munich incident as there is about the SQ6 accident.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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> Since you chose to go the private route in Singapore we can reasonably
> assume you know absolutely nothing about the training system in SIA, your
> post confirms that. A large part of the initial training of Singapore cadets
> takes place in Australia with non Singaporean instructors, the cadets don't
> get to fly within SIA until they have achieved their basic CPL/IR.
LOL.. I knew a fair amount about the SIA training (i am not saying that i am necessarily up to date), but the SIA flying club, and their offshoot (cannot remember the name) is but a part of what I am referring to. ATC in Singapore was also a big comedy. The whole thing was a mess.
If you don't like my opinion - that's your issue.
> assume you know absolutely nothing about the training system in SIA, your
> post confirms that. A large part of the initial training of Singapore cadets
> takes place in Australia with non Singaporean instructors, the cadets don't
> get to fly within SIA until they have achieved their basic CPL/IR.
LOL.. I knew a fair amount about the SIA training (i am not saying that i am necessarily up to date), but the SIA flying club, and their offshoot (cannot remember the name) is but a part of what I am referring to. ATC in Singapore was also a big comedy. The whole thing was a mess.
If you don't like my opinion - that's your issue.
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> I guess flying your PRIVATE aircraft really does qualify you to comment on
> PROFESSIONAL aviation matters. I am curious to know quite what facts your
> judgements are based on with regard to the obvious insinuations about
> training in SIA in particular? With due respect, I would beg to differ
Yes - i would say that flying in Singapore for a few years and living there DOES qualify me to make the statements i did make. If you don't like that - well, frankly, I am sorry. But I will stand by what I said, SQ9 (not 6), was excused as anything but incompetence by SQ, when in fact - it was exactly that.
take care.
> PROFESSIONAL aviation matters. I am curious to know quite what facts your
> judgements are based on with regard to the obvious insinuations about
> training in SIA in particular? With due respect, I would beg to differ
Yes - i would say that flying in Singapore for a few years and living there DOES qualify me to make the statements i did make. If you don't like that - well, frankly, I am sorry. But I will stand by what I said, SQ9 (not 6), was excused as anything but incompetence by SQ, when in fact - it was exactly that.
take care.
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SQ
> WOW ! don't you just love armchair psychologists, especially the ones who
> "flew private airplanes"
Armchair? dude, i lived it... It was somewhat painful, mostly funny.
Sorry i hurt your feelings.
> "flew private airplanes"
Armchair? dude, i lived it... It was somewhat painful, mostly funny.
Sorry i hurt your feelings.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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ATC in Singapore was also a big comedy. The whole thing was a mess.
How many visits did you make to ATC so that you could ascertain how it works? None?
Please tell us more about SQ9, I remember the accident in Taipei to SQ6 but Don't recall any accident/incident to an SQ9.
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parabellum: I beg to differ. There was a sense of "NO, we can never do such a mistake" among the GENERAL POPULATION. And that was not the reflection of the SIA's people ..
And the subsequent reports only showed that there was good Cockpit CRM .. unlike our friend here suggests ...
I too am keen to know about the SQ 009 .. is that the flight that never happened ?? Or one of those conspiracy flights ??
PS: joelnthailand: did you get spited in Singapore ? Or did you get kicked out of Singapore ? You have painted Singapore as a place of crime, and also that SIA is a safety-suspect airline .. I just looked up your old posts .. speaks volumes .. been here for 10 years and am yet to loose my wallet, even when I was drunk to the gills .. and more ..
And the subsequent reports only showed that there was good Cockpit CRM .. unlike our friend here suggests ...
I too am keen to know about the SQ 009 .. is that the flight that never happened ?? Or one of those conspiracy flights ??
PS: joelnthailand: did you get spited in Singapore ? Or did you get kicked out of Singapore ? You have painted Singapore as a place of crime, and also that SIA is a safety-suspect airline .. I just looked up your old posts .. speaks volumes .. been here for 10 years and am yet to loose my wallet, even when I was drunk to the gills .. and more ..
Last edited by ecureilx; 14th Nov 2011 at 03:42.
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" the SIA flying club, and their offshoot (cannot remember the name) is but a part of what I am referring to. "
Joeinthailand.
Will need to correct you here: The SIA Flying Club,renamed the Seletar Flying Club, is not where SIA does ab initio training.That starts at the SIA Flying College,before progressing to Jandakot and Queensland. The SIA Flying Club is very much a social club,and trains members of the public for their PPL licence.
Cheers
Joeinthailand.
Will need to correct you here: The SIA Flying Club,renamed the Seletar Flying Club, is not where SIA does ab initio training.That starts at the SIA Flying College,before progressing to Jandakot and Queensland. The SIA Flying Club is very much a social club,and trains members of the public for their PPL licence.
Cheers
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Sorry Parabellum I was working and living in Singapore during the SQ6 tradegy and there was a deep sense of denial in the company and Singaporeans generally. They handled it much better than Silk Air but it was still quite strong. whilst I dont agree with some of the unqualified statements here I think this one is quite true (rightly or wrongly!).
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There is no SIA Flying Club, or SIA Flying College.
There are:
1. Republic of Singapore Flying Club
2. Seletar Flying Club
3. Singapore Flying College
The Singapore Flying College have established their presence at:
1. Seletar Airport (WSSL)
2. Jandakot Airport (YPJT)
3. Sunshine Coast Airport, Maroochydore (YBSU)
Haven't heard of any accident or incident regarding SQ009. Please, enlighten us.
There are:
1. Republic of Singapore Flying Club
2. Seletar Flying Club
3. Singapore Flying College
The Singapore Flying College have established their presence at:
1. Seletar Airport (WSSL)
2. Jandakot Airport (YPJT)
3. Sunshine Coast Airport, Maroochydore (YBSU)
Haven't heard of any accident or incident regarding SQ009. Please, enlighten us.
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Gents, i wouldn't waste my effort replying or furnishing details to a guy who calls himself a pilot that have operated out of seletar and YET cannot get any establishment names over there right.
Not to mention he is unable to read 9 and 6 the right way up. Makes you wonder?
Cheers.
Not to mention he is unable to read 9 and 6 the right way up. Makes you wonder?
Cheers.
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Guys like CJ and JIT surprise me at their uncanny ability in winding a thread to its demolition, and causing an absolutely uncontrollable drift.
Both have machetes to grind with SIA and both are masters of the infamous witch hunt tactic.
Let's not play into their lure and get on with our thread.
Thanks guys ..
Both have machetes to grind with SIA and both are masters of the infamous witch hunt tactic.
Let's not play into their lure and get on with our thread.
Thanks guys ..
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We deviate... However with regards to sq6... There was a televised press conference made a few days after the incident in which former CEO ... Dr. CHEONG said verbatim" this is our airplane, these are our pilots and we take full responsibility", and I remembered this clearly..... Indeed this admission saved SIA public image as the payin public though sq6 as a one off incident...
And now for Munich.. Can confirm no rev thrust
And now for Munich.. Can confirm no rev thrust
