Confirmed Faker. Suggest next move?
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btos....bravo
Agree with you 1000%!
These fellas roam these forums. Plenty of such characters in KAL, CAL, EVA, Vietnam, Jet, Indigo, etc
Agree with you 1000%!
I've seen other threads in this forum get swamped by people wanting to drown this issue. In my mind only someone with a falsified background themselves (whether its experience, flight hours, rank or type) would want to bury this discussion. It's endemic in this industry
Join Date: May 2010
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Worked with this guy about four or five years ago.
He left the airline under a cloud for Emirates.
Someone at EK did a basic check.
"Hi, it's (so and so) from Emirates here. We're doing a background check on Captain (X). May I trouble you to ask how long he was the Fleet Manager, please?"
"Uh, who did you say is calling?"
"(so and so) from EK. Sorry to trouble you with this."
"That's alright. Perfectly ok. However you are in fact speaking with the Fleet Manager. My name is (Y), and I've been in this position for quite a few years. I'm sorry to tell you this, but (X) was never the Fleet Manager here, however he was a Captain. Let me assist you to verify what I've just said."
EK thanked the FM at my previous airline, and immediately rescinded the offer of employment to the pilot named in this link.
Mint Series | Foreign, but not entirely safe - Home - livemint.com
Fraud is fraud.
While the good book might suggest not casting the first stone, there is a limit to turning the other cheek!
He left the airline under a cloud for Emirates.
Someone at EK did a basic check.
"Hi, it's (so and so) from Emirates here. We're doing a background check on Captain (X). May I trouble you to ask how long he was the Fleet Manager, please?"
"Uh, who did you say is calling?"
"(so and so) from EK. Sorry to trouble you with this."
"That's alright. Perfectly ok. However you are in fact speaking with the Fleet Manager. My name is (Y), and I've been in this position for quite a few years. I'm sorry to tell you this, but (X) was never the Fleet Manager here, however he was a Captain. Let me assist you to verify what I've just said."
EK thanked the FM at my previous airline, and immediately rescinded the offer of employment to the pilot named in this link.
Mint Series | Foreign, but not entirely safe - Home - livemint.com
Fraud is fraud.
While the good book might suggest not casting the first stone, there is a limit to turning the other cheek!
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It's all well and good to say "oh, but he was just trying to feed his family", or some such lame comment.
This guy was not only a faker, but a deceptive liar of extraordinary temerity.
He maintained he was a test pilot for Boeing, and was head hunted by EK to run the B747-8 program.
Few took him at his word.
India apparently did, to what is no longer muted disgust.
Authorities should do something more concrete about this, something in the way of prevention instead of reaction.
This guy was not only a faker, but a deceptive liar of extraordinary temerity.
He maintained he was a test pilot for Boeing, and was head hunted by EK to run the B747-8 program.
Few took him at his word.
India apparently did, to what is no longer muted disgust.
Authorities should do something more concrete about this, something in the way of prevention instead of reaction.
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The guy in the article is a con artist of the "first water"! He has pulled the wool over the eyes of some first class airlines and aviation personnell providers! The list is long and distinguished! I would guess there are a few red faces out there after he was outed!
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"Confirmed Faker. Suggest next move?"
Keep him in China and let him stay in the LHS!
The Chinese fake everything, from Louis Vuitton bags to Rolexes to DVD's, so he'll fit right in!
The Chinese fake everything, from Louis Vuitton bags to Rolexes to DVD's, so he'll fit right in!
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They may manufacture fakes but they don't use them! Only first world cheapskates buy and use the fakes!
Jade Cargo, China Cargo helped manufacture many western fakes who ended in Korean, Asiana, Air Vietnam, etc!
Jade Cargo, China Cargo helped manufacture many western fakes who ended in Korean, Asiana, Air Vietnam, etc!
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In the UK there is a scheme whereby troublemakers who are banned from one pub in an area are banned from them all - a simple message conveys the information to the other pubs. In these days of electronic communications would it not be possible for the airline which has uncovered the fake pilot to send a simple, general email to all other airlines stating simply that Fred Bloggs, Evan Evans or whoever had been sacked because of irregularities in his paperwork? It could also be accompanied by a recent photo - say a copy of his security pass photo. I know it sounds a bit simplistic, but sometimes the simple things work well.
faker sources: Glass Houses
"they may produce fakes...."kinteafrokunta
Fraud is fraud. In a global workforce, the acceptance of fraud as a way of doing business affects the whole workforce. While the topic happens to be pilots, it is prevalent in other disciplines as well, such as medicine.
The authorities do not help, their arrogance and parochialism has resulted in the situation that there are some 180 different ways of complying with one international set of standards. A common standard would be far easier to evaluate, yet we cannot even agree on manner of recording experience, or standards of knowledge testing.
[Apparently crime does pay, the recent completion of career of a "character" from a North Asian Carrier culminates a history of fraud that spans since 1982 (according to Flight International contemporaneous reports and the AAIB supporting information)].
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In the UK there is a scheme whereby troublemakers who are banned from one pub in an area are banned from them all...
I' completely agree with all the concerned law abiding citizens in this thread that this is a huuuuuuge problem (much bigger than the race to the bottom deterioration of T&C's in our beloved industry) so therefore I'm pleading for microchip implants (you know, just like they already do with pets!) instead of pilot licenses and type ratings.
These microchips can then be automatically synchronized with a microchip reader installed in all cockpits of airliners with a higher MTOW of 5700kgs, which automatically logs flight time, type ratings, take off's landings and from which seat. Airline HR departments will, for verification purposes, also have these chip readers installed next to a hidden trap door in order to dispose of any bullsh!tartists presenting themselves at the interview! That will teach 'em!
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Tests won't do!
Pre-employment testing etc. will not do. Neither will interviews. If anything, only line training will show deficencies. If nothing else, you have got to give him credit for guts...or naive stupidity.
In the end, apparently nothing will deter a criminal mind; if caught, should be treated as such.
Leaves me to wonder if the DFO/TRE/TRI demigods have the eperience their credentials suggest.
Problem is in initial training! Every turd with money can get a ticket these days, since it's profit over quality in the competitive flight school business.
In 12 years of command, a picture is forming. The majority of the freshmen/women I percieve to have egos the size of Texas and matching attitudes. The emphasis has shifted working hard to learn the trade to OFF days, payscales and seniority. I am not surprised to see many disillusioned and cranky.
In the end, apparently nothing will deter a criminal mind; if caught, should be treated as such.
Leaves me to wonder if the DFO/TRE/TRI demigods have the eperience their credentials suggest.
Problem is in initial training! Every turd with money can get a ticket these days, since it's profit over quality in the competitive flight school business.
In 12 years of command, a picture is forming. The majority of the freshmen/women I percieve to have egos the size of Texas and matching attitudes. The emphasis has shifted working hard to learn the trade to OFF days, payscales and seniority. I am not surprised to see many disillusioned and cranky.
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With the explosion in demand for Captains this problem will only get larger and the Fakers will turn up anywhere that English is not the mother tongue as they know they will not be too closely probed. I suspect many claim theyl come from airlines that have ceased trading so background checks impossible to a degree, as " work colleagues" will be alter egos of these guys as well. Having said all that, the "real deal" can be very quickly identified at screening, but of course, screening is sometimes pocket deep and bias towards the positive result due to the shortage. I would take away their licence, but that is not an easy thing to do, a criminal conviction would suit best as there is no escaping that by muddy waters and it would come up on the CRC checks. I wonder if the " command hours" as a faker count,, I suspect they do as the guy is operating and sitting in the LHS!
There is only one thing we can do - expose them wherever we find them to the authorities. Reputable airlines do check, but there are some who don't or don't seem to care. You can bet the insurers will care if a faker causes a claim and it's found in the subsequent investigation that they don't have the required hours for a command!
Here's a good example.
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Cheating pilot’s new career is flying high
Here's a good example.
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Cheating pilot’s new career is flying high
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DX Wombat - that would be the best way IF every airline was peopled by people of integrity at the top. My worry would be the nasty little outfit where a guy has, say, exposed some 'irregularities' in the operation. The method you suggest could be used to screw his career for life by the vindictive and the unscrupulous. Methinks this problem should always be handled by the Regulatory Authority.
Provided they are scrupulous, of course. Hmmmmm.......
Provided they are scrupulous, of course. Hmmmmm.......
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ICAO should intervene
Since this problem is becoming more and more serious, ICAO should intervene by creating an office who would confirm any fakes and then publish the names, in a web page. All a recruiting team would have to do is check the web.
They should include name and other details, so if John Smith is a faker they don't ban a thousand pilots...
They should include name and other details, so if John Smith is a faker they don't ban a thousand pilots...
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Microburst2002 is right though
Use of database doesn't even have to be mandatory. Just get FAA and/or JAA to participate and insurers will do the rest.
So Mr Dubious Chinese Airline, you want insurance? Give us your roster and we will run it by ICAO database or premiums go up 50%...
Once enough insurers do it, airlines will want only pilots in the database, so every legit pilot will want to be in. If not the insurance, then the lender, or the leasing company. You get the idea. If the database cometh, plenty will want it used.
Already done at the national level in many countries for many industries. My better half can't hire a van driver without letting the insurance have a peek at his record.
So Mr Dubious Chinese Airline, you want insurance? Give us your roster and we will run it by ICAO database or premiums go up 50%...
Once enough insurers do it, airlines will want only pilots in the database, so every legit pilot will want to be in. If not the insurance, then the lender, or the leasing company. You get the idea. If the database cometh, plenty will want it used.
Already done at the national level in many countries for many industries. My better half can't hire a van driver without letting the insurance have a peek at his record.