737 reported down in Canada
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Sept 23, 1985. Weyer's Cave, VA (KSHD). Probably cause was using the VOR instead of the ILS for course guidance.
Gets interesting about page 57/87, probable cause on 61/87.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR86-07.pdf
Lack of intercom, noise level in cockpit, etc, etc.
28% turnover in the previous year, qualifications of applicants dropping(mid 1980's major airline hiring boom)
40% of candidates failing Dash 8 CA and FO upgrade program. FAA hadn't flown an obervation flight in months, etc, etc.
New Captain(one month), FO had 6 weeks with company. FO had falsified MEL time, had not disclosed previous accidents, fired from previous job, etc, etc.
Mentions non-standard, and non-FAA approved, cockpit configurations. I believe they had 8-9 Beech 99's and had 5 or 6 different cockpit configurations.
VOR/ILS tuning was outboard of FO's seat. Investigators believe FO had VOR, instead of ILS, selected. Noise level, lack of intercom, passengers can hear any cockpit discussion, new Captain, new FO, etc, etc, etc.
Hit 200' below the top of the ridge.
Gets interesting about page 57/87, probable cause on 61/87.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR86-07.pdf
Lack of intercom, noise level in cockpit, etc, etc.
28% turnover in the previous year, qualifications of applicants dropping(mid 1980's major airline hiring boom)
40% of candidates failing Dash 8 CA and FO upgrade program. FAA hadn't flown an obervation flight in months, etc, etc.
New Captain(one month), FO had 6 weeks with company. FO had falsified MEL time, had not disclosed previous accidents, fired from previous job, etc, etc.
Mentions non-standard, and non-FAA approved, cockpit configurations. I believe they had 8-9 Beech 99's and had 5 or 6 different cockpit configurations.
VOR/ILS tuning was outboard of FO's seat. Investigators believe FO had VOR, instead of ILS, selected. Noise level, lack of intercom, passengers can hear any cockpit discussion, new Captain, new FO, etc, etc, etc.
Hit 200' below the top of the ridge.
Can you just imagine the authorities allowing such a tribute to take place at LGW or LHR and can you just imagine how many local airlines would be happy and honoured to take part?
Well done to everyone at Yellowknife. It was a wonderful tribute.
Well done to everyone at Yellowknife. It was a wonderful tribute.
Thanks be to Buffalo Joe and his people!
The difference is that in the Arctic, air transport is the daily mode of transport - there is no other choice, unless you want to walk a CAT(erpiller) across the tundra in winter!
It's how the groceries arrive (as on First Air), how the kids go to visit their cousins in the next village, to play a big hockey game, etc., etc.
It is the daily stuff of life, not a summer vacation in Spain, or winter in Florida.
Can you just imagine the authorities allowing such a tribute to take place at LGW or LHR and can you just imagine how many local airlines would be happy and honoured to take part?
It's how the groceries arrive (as on First Air), how the kids go to visit their cousins in the next village, to play a big hockey game, etc., etc.
It is the daily stuff of life, not a summer vacation in Spain, or winter in Florida.
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Trust Funds for kids
The Hare Girls Trust is set up at Scotiabank You can walk up to any teller and let them know you would like to donate to The Hare Girls Trust or use Jane's Name. If you live outside of Yellowknife, you can go into any Scotiabank Teller and let them know you would like to donate to the Hare Girls Trust in Yellowknife and provide them with Hare's name.
The Rutherford trust fund for Noah and Hannah is set up at any RBC branch ,Royal Bank of Canada account # 07159-5041181
Thank you everyone for your incredible support for the Hare and Rutherford Families during this difficult time. Every penny will count for their education.
The Rutherford trust fund for Noah and Hannah is set up at any RBC branch ,Royal Bank of Canada account # 07159-5041181
Thank you everyone for your incredible support for the Hare and Rutherford Families during this difficult time. Every penny will count for their education.
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Site photos
A few photos of some of the debris have been posted in the Canadian TSB web site:
Transportation Safety Board of Canada | A11H0002 | First Air Flight 6560
Mostly of the area around the tail, with no shots of what's left of the main passenger section.
Transportation Safety Board of Canada | A11H0002 | First Air Flight 6560
Mostly of the area around the tail, with no shots of what's left of the main passenger section.
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The three who survived this (and no, I am not a particularly religious person) must have been protected for some future significant purpose . . . . . . . .
Sure hope the finger of blame points to an unavoidable circumstance and not any individuals . . .
Sure hope the finger of blame points to an unavoidable circumstance and not any individuals . . .
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RESA:
That's why I never worry when I fly.
The only hope for that would be some type of avionics or ground-based nav aid failure, and those types of events are usually avoidable.
The three who survived this (and no, I am not a particularly religious person) must have been protected for some future significant purpose . . . . . . . .
Sure hope the finger of blame points to an unavoidable circumstance and not any individuals . . .
This must be the only thread on Pprune ever that has stayed on topic throughout and not degenerated into a slanging match. Congratulations!
Could it be the stewardesses survived because they were in rear facing seats and the kid because of the lower body mass?
Does seem incredible that anyone survived this.
Could it be the stewardesses survived because they were in rear facing seats and the kid because of the lower body mass?
Does seem incredible that anyone survived this.
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Could it be the stewardesses survived because they were in rear facing seats and the kid because of the lower body mass?
The aircraft was supposedly configured with cargo pallets toward the front, and only 24 seats at the rear. With this arrangement, survivability would be more luck than anything else, and it would only be baseless speculation to suggest why one passenger survived and another didn't with the information available now.
Looking at the images it appears to me that we don't see the whole wreckage path.
First of all the quantity of structure/materials we see does not seem to represent the whole structure of a 737.
secondly the wreckage path is too short for my taste. Impacting at 120+ kts at a shallow angle (3-4°?) should produce a longer distance from initial impact to full stop.
So maybe to the right of the image there is some more intact structure left.
Otherwise it would be really incredible that someone survived in this atomised structure.
First of all the quantity of structure/materials we see does not seem to represent the whole structure of a 737.
secondly the wreckage path is too short for my taste. Impacting at 120+ kts at a shallow angle (3-4°?) should produce a longer distance from initial impact to full stop.
So maybe to the right of the image there is some more intact structure left.
Otherwise it would be really incredible that someone survived in this atomised structure.
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Henra,
Remember that you are looking at telephoto shots of High Arctic tundra, where the absence of trees leads to major problems of scale. Distances can be very deceptive.
In the photos posted by Lost in Saigon, the Canadian military Griffon helicopter in photo #1 and the red Canadian Coast Guard Bo105 chopper in photo #4 do provide some scale but they are sitting well in front of the wreckage trail.
That said, the debris does seem to extend to the right out of photo #4 but I doubt it stretches very far and it would hardly include intact segments of the fuselage - and certainly not "upstream" from the tail.
Of course it is a miracle that there were three survivors, one of them a young woman who actually walked (probably more likely hobbled as she had a broken leg) away from the wreckage and found another survivor, a young Inuit girl, sitting on a rock.
Rockhound
Remember that you are looking at telephoto shots of High Arctic tundra, where the absence of trees leads to major problems of scale. Distances can be very deceptive.
In the photos posted by Lost in Saigon, the Canadian military Griffon helicopter in photo #1 and the red Canadian Coast Guard Bo105 chopper in photo #4 do provide some scale but they are sitting well in front of the wreckage trail.
That said, the debris does seem to extend to the right out of photo #4 but I doubt it stretches very far and it would hardly include intact segments of the fuselage - and certainly not "upstream" from the tail.
Of course it is a miracle that there were three survivors, one of them a young woman who actually walked (probably more likely hobbled as she had a broken leg) away from the wreckage and found another survivor, a young Inuit girl, sitting on a rock.
Rockhound
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Here are three more photos from the TSB website: Transportation Safety Board of Canada | A11H0002 | First Air Flight 6560
You can't tell where it originally contacted the hill, but these look towards the start of the debris trail.
You can't tell where it originally contacted the hill, but these look towards the start of the debris trail.
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Resolute crash survivor shares her story (CBC News)
Resolute crash survivor shares her story - Canada - CBC News
Resolute crash survivor shares her story - Canada - CBC News
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Nicole Williamson, one of the three survivors and the interviewee in the CBC News story, comes across as a very level-headed and well-spoken young woman, although I could not help feeling that she does not fully appreciate how miraculous her survival was. Typically, for a journalist, Peter Mansbridge, the CBC News anchor and interviewer, did not ask the right questions. Following the cabin crew`s announcement to prepare for landing, did Nicole hear the wheels being lowered? Did she see the ground prior to impact? (I read earlier that Gabrielle, the young girl who survived, saw buildings at the Resolute airport just before the impact.) From what Nicole said, it appears that there was no change in engine noise during the approach, indicating that there was no attempt at a go-around. Putting it all together and reading between the lines, it does appear that the crew was intending to land on Rwy 35.
Also, it was not made clear in the interview that the aircraft impacted the hillside above the runway in a direction roughly parallel to the runway. Far too much is being made of the role the military played in the rescue. Of course, it was fortunate that they had helicopters and a field hospital at the runway 2 km from the crash site. However, no doubt there was a civilian helicopter or two and ATVs available at the Polar Continental Shelf Program, the Canadian government logistics organization supporting scientific fieldwork in the Arctic, which is based at the Resolute airport during the summer field season. These assets could have effected the rescue nearly as well as the military.
It`s far more pertinent to ask, what would the military have been able to accomplish if the accident had occurred hundreds of miles from Resolute?
Also, it was not made clear in the interview that the aircraft impacted the hillside above the runway in a direction roughly parallel to the runway. Far too much is being made of the role the military played in the rescue. Of course, it was fortunate that they had helicopters and a field hospital at the runway 2 km from the crash site. However, no doubt there was a civilian helicopter or two and ATVs available at the Polar Continental Shelf Program, the Canadian government logistics organization supporting scientific fieldwork in the Arctic, which is based at the Resolute airport during the summer field season. These assets could have effected the rescue nearly as well as the military.
It`s far more pertinent to ask, what would the military have been able to accomplish if the accident had occurred hundreds of miles from Resolute?
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Typically, for a journalist, Peter Mansbridge, the CBC News anchor and interviewer, did not ask the right questions.
But heavens, don't let me stop someone having a pop at the press.
...I could not help feeling that she (Nicole Williamson) does not fully appreciate how miraculous her survival was
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Typically, for a journalist
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I found the interview quite interesting. She was very articulate and had a clear memory of the whole accident sequence, including the break-up of the fuselage and tumbling across the tundra, strapped to her seat, wondering why she was still conscious. The way she describes her shock, and her recovery to help the young girl was also interesting. I think Peter Mansbridge did a very good job of eliciting what he was supposed to elicit; a good human interest story, with warmth and compassion.