Qantas pilots going on strike?
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Qantas pilots going on strike?
Qantas pilots to take industrial action
1:26 PM Tuesday Jul 19, 2011
Qantas long-haul pilots will take industrial action from Friday, the airline says.
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) was due to announce its action plans at 11am (2pm NZT).
But Qantas said it had already been told there would be work bans.
"Qantas is assessing the implications of the work bans and will write to the pilots' union to seek clarification," it said in a statement on Tuesday.
"At this stage, we don't expect any flight delays or cancellations."
- AAP
1:26 PM Tuesday Jul 19, 2011
Qantas long-haul pilots will take industrial action from Friday, the airline says.
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) was due to announce its action plans at 11am (2pm NZT).
But Qantas said it had already been told there would be work bans.
"Qantas is assessing the implications of the work bans and will write to the pilots' union to seek clarification," it said in a statement on Tuesday.
"At this stage, we don't expect any flight delays or cancellations."
- AAP
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Best of luck to all the QF blokes. Despite my fatalistic opinion
on the matter, I nonetheless hope they do succeed and make
some gains. At least they don't have a fat turd's cigar smoke
permeating the halls of DOT this time (or CASA as its known
now).
on the matter, I nonetheless hope they do succeed and make
some gains. At least they don't have a fat turd's cigar smoke
permeating the halls of DOT this time (or CASA as its known
now).
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Hope someone told these dudes the most effective way to immediately increase pay and get the airline's attention is working to rules. Just a little bit more than normal would do the trick. A bit more fuel, a few less visual approaches, more time at turbulence penetration speed when it is forecast. Some management pilots and others may not like to participate. No problem! Their incoming aircraft will be late, curfews and duty times plus technical write-ups that could sometimes be verbal, will affect the next flight. Participants will possibly not be requesting shortcuts or pushing so hard for a better level. Finally aircraft will be running so late it will be impossible to recover the lost time. There might be a tiny problem with connections. Everyone will still get paid. Turbo Tie will be so happy he is not running the show.
Most of the 1,600 1989ers probably wish work to rules had been the way to go then.
Most of the 1,600 1989ers probably wish work to rules had been the way to go then.
QANTAS Pilots Strike
I have no connection with Qantas or Australian aviation whatsoever.
All I would say on the matter is, remember 1989/90, did this really result in better conditions etc for Aussie Pilots?
I would suggest, that many workers in many other professions would be only too happy to receive the present pay & conditions of the QANTAS Pilots.
This action can & will all end in tears folks & I am rather sure for whom as well.
Stay safe.
All I would say on the matter is, remember 1989/90, did this really result in better conditions etc for Aussie Pilots?
I would suggest, that many workers in many other professions would be only too happy to receive the present pay & conditions of the QANTAS Pilots.
This action can & will all end in tears folks & I am rather sure for whom as well.
Stay safe.
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Good luck and all the best to them! However is this prudent? See this :
Qantas: This is your striking pilot speaking
July 20, 2011, 10:25 amYahoo! New Zealand
Qantas passengers will be greeted by a different kind of in-flight message on Friday as pilots make their point in an ongoing industrial dispute.
Qantas passengers will be greeted by a different kind of in-flight message on Friday as pilots make their point in an ongoing industrial dispute.
The Australian and International Pilots Association announced yesterday it would make "unauthorised in-flight announcements" on long-haul flights.
AIPA spokesman Nathan Safe says the industrial action will be focused on raising public awareness and will not disrupt passengers.
"We know that the biggest wake-up call we can send the current management team is to blow the whistle on their plans to strip a proud Australian icon down to its bare bones and shift operations to Asia," he said.
"When Australians board a Qantas flight, they expect a Qantas pilot at the controls."
Safe says the messages will be "brief and positive".
Qantas has released a statement saying it is "disappointed that the pilots' union would intentionally disturb customers' in-flight experience to make a point during an industrial dispute".
The airline does not expect any flight delays or cancellations.
The statement says the union is trying to force the company to pay all its subsidiary pilots, including Jetstar, the same rates as Qantas pilots.
"The union is also demanding pay increases and free flights on top of already heavily discounted airfares. The claim, if it were ever conceded, would drive up airfares, cost jobs and make Qantas airlines and routes unprofitable."
Qantas: This is your striking pilot speaking
July 20, 2011, 10:25 amYahoo! New Zealand
Qantas passengers will be greeted by a different kind of in-flight message on Friday as pilots make their point in an ongoing industrial dispute.
Qantas passengers will be greeted by a different kind of in-flight message on Friday as pilots make their point in an ongoing industrial dispute.
The Australian and International Pilots Association announced yesterday it would make "unauthorised in-flight announcements" on long-haul flights.
AIPA spokesman Nathan Safe says the industrial action will be focused on raising public awareness and will not disrupt passengers.
"We know that the biggest wake-up call we can send the current management team is to blow the whistle on their plans to strip a proud Australian icon down to its bare bones and shift operations to Asia," he said.
"When Australians board a Qantas flight, they expect a Qantas pilot at the controls."
Safe says the messages will be "brief and positive".
Qantas has released a statement saying it is "disappointed that the pilots' union would intentionally disturb customers' in-flight experience to make a point during an industrial dispute".
The airline does not expect any flight delays or cancellations.
The statement says the union is trying to force the company to pay all its subsidiary pilots, including Jetstar, the same rates as Qantas pilots.
"The union is also demanding pay increases and free flights on top of already heavily discounted airfares. The claim, if it were ever conceded, would drive up airfares, cost jobs and make Qantas airlines and routes unprofitable."
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For those who don't know the history, Qantas was not involved in the 1989 Australian domestic pilot's dispute [although many individuals now in Qantas were]
The last time pilots in Qantas were in dispute was the 1966 pilot's strike which set up the current base agreement.
We are not in dispute now over pay and conditions but over a "scope" clause.
ie: Qantas aircraft = Qantas pilot
The last time pilots in Qantas were in dispute was the 1966 pilot's strike which set up the current base agreement.
We are not in dispute now over pay and conditions but over a "scope" clause.
ie: Qantas aircraft = Qantas pilot
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The PA announcement idea is incredibly stupid. QF will dismiss each offender, rapidly resulting in QF control of progress. See my safe procedure on this thread. I have actually done it both ways. Working to rules quickly had the best possible outcomes. Identifiable breeches of contract or company procedures had the worst possible outcomes.
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I would suggest, that many workers in many other professions would be only too happy to receive the present pay & conditions of the QANTAS Pilots.
Whispering "T" Jet
All I would say on the matter is, remember 1989/90, did this really result in better conditions etc for Aussie Pilots?
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I am a long time pprune poster and have the interests of pilots in mind.
It is drawing a very long bow to assume that an FWA ruling is comprehensive enough to withstand scruitiny re industrial type PAs. QF can dismiss the concerned pilots summarily and they then have to fight for their jobs. If the union encouraged the PAs and the result is unfavourable, the union is in trouble also.
My opinion is that QF will be satisfied with what they can achieve. Outcome for pilots can be disasterous when it is not necessary to take this risk. Just like in 1989, union executive are getting the support of members. Executive led industrial choices need to be much safer for members.
QF most fears subtle work to rules. Those that refuse to consider this excellent possibility are digging a deep hole. No QF pilot deliberatley flys into a Cb, accepts a high sink rate on final, accepts an obvious unservicable aircraft, fronts up for sim without previewing the planned exercises, or acts impulsively landing at high speed half way down a wet runway. When these things are accepted, there can be difficulties as we all know.
So when it comes to industrial matters, they do not apply the general principles of safe flight operation learnt over decades. Beats me why QF pilots decide to engage in risky behaviour that has a better chance of benefitting management
Unbelievable! No excuse for risky action. Like there is no other choice?
In 1989 our executive refused to consider work to rules.. Only God knows why. Don't let your executive lead you down that same path.
It is drawing a very long bow to assume that an FWA ruling is comprehensive enough to withstand scruitiny re industrial type PAs. QF can dismiss the concerned pilots summarily and they then have to fight for their jobs. If the union encouraged the PAs and the result is unfavourable, the union is in trouble also.
My opinion is that QF will be satisfied with what they can achieve. Outcome for pilots can be disasterous when it is not necessary to take this risk. Just like in 1989, union executive are getting the support of members. Executive led industrial choices need to be much safer for members.
QF most fears subtle work to rules. Those that refuse to consider this excellent possibility are digging a deep hole. No QF pilot deliberatley flys into a Cb, accepts a high sink rate on final, accepts an obvious unservicable aircraft, fronts up for sim without previewing the planned exercises, or acts impulsively landing at high speed half way down a wet runway. When these things are accepted, there can be difficulties as we all know.
So when it comes to industrial matters, they do not apply the general principles of safe flight operation learnt over decades. Beats me why QF pilots decide to engage in risky behaviour that has a better chance of benefitting management
Unbelievable! No excuse for risky action. Like there is no other choice?
In 1989 our executive refused to consider work to rules.. Only God knows why. Don't let your executive lead you down that same path.
Last edited by autoflight; 20th Jul 2011 at 23:47.
Whispering "T" Jet
autoflight are you seriously suggesting
are the norm for aircrew not working to rule? 
......... deliberatley flys into a Cb, accepts a high sink rate on final, accepts an obvious unservicable aircraft, fronts up for sim without previewing the planned exercises, or acts impulsively landing at high speed half way down a wet runway.
The union ad's message is "When you board a Qantas flight..you expect a Qantas pilot". As far as I'm aware, the only QF prefixed flights that one would board without a Qantas pilot are the codeshares (op by BA etc) and franchises (such as the domestic B717 ops), and I'm not aware that these are meant to be the target of any protest? Jetstar flights on aircraft owned by the Qantas group don't use QF prefixes except for a few codeshares. I assume the in-flight announcements referring to "Qantas aircraft...Qantas pilot" convey what is really meant, but the lack of precision won't help to get the message across to a public who might not consider Jetstar flights to be Qantas flights.
Recall in the 1960s that BOAC pilots had a "restriction of cooperation" - a/c not accepted for service with any defects at all (even if ok in MEL), no discretion to FTL, full instrument approach everywhere (ie no visuals), etc.
ok they did eventually go on strike (I think the first pilot's strike ever) but their actions in "working to rule" certainly had an effect!
BOAC Pilots Strike
ok they did eventually go on strike (I think the first pilot's strike ever) but their actions in "working to rule" certainly had an effect!
BOAC Pilots Strike
QANTAS flight, not an Australian pilot
Max,
A QF-labelled flight in a 737 series aircraft between Australia and NZ is almost certainly going to be "QANTAS operated by JetConnect", in a ZK-registered aircarft with Kiwi flight crew and Kiwi cabin crew paid Kiwi wages - up to 40% lower than Australian ones. The aircraft has the QANTAS kangaroo, the big writing on the fuselage is "QANTAS", and the crew uniforms are identical to QANTAS ones. JetConnect is a shell company 100% owned by QANTAS, it doesn't even have NZ bank accounts, the crew are paid from the QANTAS bank account in Australia (in NZ dollars, of course). QANTAS management are so impressed with the "success" of this concept that they are planning to do the same with a Singapore-based subsidiary.
Perhaps now you can begin to understand why the QANTAS pilots are getting so grumpy?
No, I'm not a pilot, just SLF - Kiwi SLF at that, but JetConnect stinks from the ethical point of view. Not that QANTAS' management would recognise that as a consideration.
A QF-labelled flight in a 737 series aircraft between Australia and NZ is almost certainly going to be "QANTAS operated by JetConnect", in a ZK-registered aircarft with Kiwi flight crew and Kiwi cabin crew paid Kiwi wages - up to 40% lower than Australian ones. The aircraft has the QANTAS kangaroo, the big writing on the fuselage is "QANTAS", and the crew uniforms are identical to QANTAS ones. JetConnect is a shell company 100% owned by QANTAS, it doesn't even have NZ bank accounts, the crew are paid from the QANTAS bank account in Australia (in NZ dollars, of course). QANTAS management are so impressed with the "success" of this concept that they are planning to do the same with a Singapore-based subsidiary.
Perhaps now you can begin to understand why the QANTAS pilots are getting so grumpy?
No, I'm not a pilot, just SLF - Kiwi SLF at that, but JetConnect stinks from the ethical point of view. Not that QANTAS' management would recognise that as a consideration.
If the PAs that the pilots were making were one millimetre outside what was legal under the current industrial rules then QF would not be saying they are disappointed they would be saying that the pilots will be disciplined. This is a very different dispute to 89 so don't try and draw parallels. AIPA is well aware what is legal and what is not. They have also been clear on what is not industrial action. Turning up to work at sign-on, having a thorough understanding of the weather and notams and ensuring that every aspect of an MEL is understood before commencing pushback are just some of the aspects of the job that are not work to rule but legally required. If that results in a late departure its not industrial action but simply doing the job in the time made available.
Kiwi Grey
Yes, I'm aware of that. My point (perhaps in the light of the recent BA Cabin staff fiasco) was more to do with the effectiveness of the current campaign in winning the hearts & minds of the public, since that is where these initial in-flight announcements & advertising seem directed.
I'd suggest that the travelling public is already thoroughly confused by codeshares, franchises etc (yet haven't revolted against them) and that whilst most people don't much like outsourcing, their employers almost all practise it, and as consumers they like low prices and so in the end don't much care if their Holden car or their Bonds underwear is made in China. I'd suggest that the image of an aircraft as described by you as operated by "Kiwi flight crew and Kiwi cabin crew paid Kiwi wages" isn't going to strike terror into the minds of those down the back, particularly if those wages aren't much different from those of Air NZ.
The public (and hopefully the regulators upon whom they rely) would of course have a massive interest if a link could be established between outsourcing,low costs and low safety standards, however to convey that message obviously involves just a few difficulties. As mentioned, my observations have nothing to do with the rights & wrongs of the case, merely the public campaign - I guess the pilots can draw some comfort from QF's recent poor PR performance on various issues!
Yes, I'm aware of that. My point (perhaps in the light of the recent BA Cabin staff fiasco) was more to do with the effectiveness of the current campaign in winning the hearts & minds of the public, since that is where these initial in-flight announcements & advertising seem directed.
I'd suggest that the travelling public is already thoroughly confused by codeshares, franchises etc (yet haven't revolted against them) and that whilst most people don't much like outsourcing, their employers almost all practise it, and as consumers they like low prices and so in the end don't much care if their Holden car or their Bonds underwear is made in China. I'd suggest that the image of an aircraft as described by you as operated by "Kiwi flight crew and Kiwi cabin crew paid Kiwi wages" isn't going to strike terror into the minds of those down the back, particularly if those wages aren't much different from those of Air NZ.
The public (and hopefully the regulators upon whom they rely) would of course have a massive interest if a link could be established between outsourcing,low costs and low safety standards, however to convey that message obviously involves just a few difficulties. As mentioned, my observations have nothing to do with the rights & wrongs of the case, merely the public campaign - I guess the pilots can draw some comfort from QF's recent poor PR performance on various issues!