Tu 134 crashed in Russia
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Looking at Google Earth and a Reuters photo of the crash scene (the one with the Airport direction road sign) it would seem possible that they'd lined up with the airport access road which runs roughly parallel to runway 02 but about 400 metres right of it. The airport road is a residential area (houses on the right side of the road) so it will probably have good street lighting. Might explain why they had descended below minimums thinking they had the runway in sight.
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Rough translation from the Lenta.ru website:
According to the chairman of the Committee on the livelihoods and safety of the population of Karelia Nikolai Fedotov, the airplane during landing in difficult weather conditions deviated to the right of the runway at 150-200 meters.
The crew tried to correct the aircraft at an altitude of about 110 meters after the air traffic controller told the crew to perform a go-around, but during the maneuver it hit power lines along the road, which caused the runway lights to go out for some five seconds.
When emergency lighting came on, the plane had already touched the tops of the forest and crashed on a highway. Link
Also, it appears onboard were at least three high-ranking directors of a Russian nuclear power company, on their way to a conference in Petrozavodsk.
Link
According to the chairman of the Committee on the livelihoods and safety of the population of Karelia Nikolai Fedotov, the airplane during landing in difficult weather conditions deviated to the right of the runway at 150-200 meters.
The crew tried to correct the aircraft at an altitude of about 110 meters after the air traffic controller told the crew to perform a go-around, but during the maneuver it hit power lines along the road, which caused the runway lights to go out for some five seconds.
When emergency lighting came on, the plane had already touched the tops of the forest and crashed on a highway. Link
Also, it appears onboard were at least three high-ranking directors of a Russian nuclear power company, on their way to a conference in Petrozavodsk.
Link
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Down to a few hundred feet on an NDB in atrocious weather sounds highly dangerous.
As for lining up on the nearby road.... saw it happen at Heathrow a few times with the A4 versus 27R.. and that's with Cat III ILS and a full scale lighting system.
As for lining up on the nearby road.... saw it happen at Heathrow a few times with the A4 versus 27R.. and that's with Cat III ILS and a full scale lighting system.
Having been to Petrozavodsk I can say that there is very little good quality road lighting outside the city centre, as can be seen in some of the photographs here the timber roadside poles appear to only be a 3-phase power transmission line, which may be the airport supply. Given that it was not dark, but foggy at the time, I too initially wondered whether they had mistaken a road alignment for the parallel runway, but can't see a candidate for this.
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The airliner took off from Moscow at 22:30 on Monday, made a hard landing on the highway about a kilometer from Petrozaavodska writes "Gazeta.ru".
ooking at Google Earth and a Reuters photo of the crash scene (the one with the Airport direction road sign) it would seem possible that they'd lined up with the airport access road which runs roughly parallel to runway 02 but about 400 metres right of it. The airport road is a residential area (houses on the right side of the road) so it will probably have good street lighting. Might explain why they had descended below minimums thinking they had the runway in sight.
PS: Considering the map, posted by Kulverstukas, I have taken the liberty to restate my point about SD? Thank you for the map, Kulverstukas.
Last edited by AvMed.IN; 21st Jun 2011 at 12:18.
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Kulverstukas might help.
There was a map, just saw it 5 min ago, and it is gone :o(
There was a map, just saw it 5 min ago, and it is gone :o(
a "lit" road parallel to the runway
look at the map (link in the WHBM post).
Tupolev TU-134AK RA-65691 "RusAir"
Last edited by Kulverstukas; 21st Jun 2011 at 14:16.
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Looks like the accident investigation won't be necessary:
'"I do not want to prejudge the investigation and all that but preliminary information suggests an obvious pilot error in poor weather conditions," said Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov'
Words fail me.
'"I do not want to prejudge the investigation and all that but preliminary information suggests an obvious pilot error in poor weather conditions," said Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov'
Words fail me.
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...an obvious pilot error...
===================================
It is not an error, it is just discipline question!
Every one ex-soviet (and not only) pilot knows - if he descends below minimum during NDB approach trying to establish visual contact - he will get the ground by the Inner marker (inner NDB).... It had happen many-many times in the USSR (and not only) and still happens...
===================================
It is not an error, it is just discipline question!
Every one ex-soviet (and not only) pilot knows - if he descends below minimum during NDB approach trying to establish visual contact - he will get the ground by the Inner marker (inner NDB).... It had happen many-many times in the USSR (and not only) and still happens...
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It's not my map. It's from famous "smolensk forum" 
zillion-posts thread about poor Kachinsky flight.
But I can show you this: approach map from south
It's from famous "smolensk forum" zillion-posts thread about poor Kachinsky flight. But I can show you this: approach map from south
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The Google Earth picture clearly shows a major electric power transmission line going in the east-to-west direction about 4.4 km (2.5 NM) south of Rwy 02. This might have been where the airplane hit - any media reports on that?
Speculation:
Interestingly, the approach chart indicates that the tower heights (pylons) are 34 metres where it crosses the chart's approach track, but rise to 60 to 74 metres further to the side of the approach track. Ahead of the power line (on the assumed actual approach track, reported to have been to the right of the correct track) there is an open field and right behind the power line is a forest. So in the murk the crew may have allowed the plane to descend too low over the field, and then not seen the pylons against the dark forest background. The higher pylons would probably rise to about double the forest height.
If they had any visual ground contact at all, that is. Not many houses or light sources there either to help the crew - only what seems to be some gardening allotments, which typically have minimal lighting and probably not even that on this rainy evening.
Anyway, according to the chart the plane should have been at a height of some 220 metres when passing that power line...
FDR will hopefully clarify.
Speculation:
Interestingly, the approach chart indicates that the tower heights (pylons) are 34 metres where it crosses the chart's approach track, but rise to 60 to 74 metres further to the side of the approach track. Ahead of the power line (on the assumed actual approach track, reported to have been to the right of the correct track) there is an open field and right behind the power line is a forest. So in the murk the crew may have allowed the plane to descend too low over the field, and then not seen the pylons against the dark forest background. The higher pylons would probably rise to about double the forest height.
If they had any visual ground contact at all, that is. Not many houses or light sources there either to help the crew - only what seems to be some gardening allotments, which typically have minimal lighting and probably not even that on this rainy evening.
Anyway, according to the chart the plane should have been at a height of some 220 metres when passing that power line...
FDR will hopefully clarify.
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And 2 people of evidence - a girl and a man, sitting in their car 200 m away from the crash site at the moment of crash - according to Komsomol Truh newspaper (popular yellow press but still) - stubbornly say they saw an orange thing like a ball in air behind them - the girl saw, told him, they turned their heads around, saw a fire in air! then bang and the plane crashed by their side.
She says she called the police at once - said "there is an airplane crashed by us, now!" and the police told them "We don't possess of such information" - and hanged up!
!!!
So they ran out and ran to the crash site, where there were bodies thrown around in plane pieces and burning alive. And dashed for a while there, between the pieces. They were joined by a man, who drove in his car from the village nearby, and he came with his 12-year old son, and a local priest also ran up there. The man with his son took command of the improvised gathering of locals, said what do you stare, look for live people - and that man and the priest actually saved 4! out of 8 who survived. And the girl and her man helped to pull he stewardess out.
Ministry of Extraordinary situation now says they will award all the 9 locals who have pulled out of the debris still 8 people alive.
Locals, interviewed by this newspaper, say there were 4 exlplosions when the plane was already burning on the ground, and they were scared to go inside the main piece of the aircraft, only pulled away those who were thrown out of the plane together with separate plane pieces, like, stuck in them, and burning alive.
The man with his son who pulled out 4 was actually treated by doctors himself after, as he's got a nervous break-down, remembers many more people to who he would come, something will blow up again - and there is no one to save anymore, and this haunts him, that there were many more who cold have been saved only there was nobody by to help him decisively.
Thank you, Kulverstukas, that is the map that I saw.
She says she called the police at once - said "there is an airplane crashed by us, now!" and the police told them "We don't possess of such information" - and hanged up!
!!!
So they ran out and ran to the crash site, where there were bodies thrown around in plane pieces and burning alive. And dashed for a while there, between the pieces. They were joined by a man, who drove in his car from the village nearby, and he came with his 12-year old son, and a local priest also ran up there. The man with his son took command of the improvised gathering of locals, said what do you stare, look for live people - and that man and the priest actually saved 4! out of 8 who survived. And the girl and her man helped to pull he stewardess out.
Ministry of Extraordinary situation now says they will award all the 9 locals who have pulled out of the debris still 8 people alive.
Locals, interviewed by this newspaper, say there were 4 exlplosions when the plane was already burning on the ground, and they were scared to go inside the main piece of the aircraft, only pulled away those who were thrown out of the plane together with separate plane pieces, like, stuck in them, and burning alive.
The man with his son who pulled out 4 was actually treated by doctors himself after, as he's got a nervous break-down, remembers many more people to who he would come, something will blow up again - and there is no one to save anymore, and this haunts him, that there were many more who cold have been saved only there was nobody by to help him decisively.
Thank you, Kulverstukas, that is the map that I saw.
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Alice,
"And 2 people of evidence (...) stubbornly say they saw an orange thing like a ball in air behind them"
Bear in mind that the aircraft struck a powerline and trees before it hit the ground, it's also quite possible the engines ingested debris from trees, which could cause compressor surges, often evidenced by flames behind engine exhausts.
"And 2 people of evidence (...) stubbornly say they saw an orange thing like a ball in air behind them"
Bear in mind that the aircraft struck a powerline and trees before it hit the ground, it's also quite possible the engines ingested debris from trees, which could cause compressor surges, often evidenced by flames behind engine exhausts.
Accident - maybe not
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debkafile's sources reveal that they were among the 44 passengers who were killed.
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DEBKAfile Exclusive Report June 23, 2011, 12:00 PM (GMT+02:00) Tags: Iran nuclear
Russia Bushehr Stuxnet Three Russian scients who built Bushehr
The three Russian nuclear scientists who planned, designed, built and put into operation Iran's first nuclear reactor at Bushehr this year, died Tuesday night, June 20, when a Rusaero flight from Moscow to Petrozavodsk in northwest Russia crashed.
debkafile's sources reveal that they were among the 44 passengers who were killed.
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May be the pair saw this, when the plane was in air. Knock knock knock on wood the stewardess will survive, she might know.
It's only, a sitting plan was published, showing where people were during landing, who survived, and the place of her is marked naturally in the beg. of the salon, not with the pilots. So she wouldn't know anyway, one would think, what was happening during the last minute.
(survivors sat everywhere in the beg as well as towards the end of the plane - but none in the very tail. no "safe" zone to be noticed)
The order of appearance of saving crew and ambulance is pathetic. First were helping people out various locals, (and one was woken up by the bang and sped in his car to the place), then - there appeared an ambulance from the town, and the last one - own airport's!!
And the guy who jumped in his car and rode to the crash side and pulled out four people from the burning debris - he phoned "his village neighbour, airport director" and told him of the crash - and then that airport director from home called the ambulances. Interesting the airport director didn't wake up from the bang in his home, and did not sped there himself.
It's only, a sitting plan was published, showing where people were during landing, who survived, and the place of her is marked naturally in the beg. of the salon, not with the pilots. So she wouldn't know anyway, one would think, what was happening during the last minute.
(survivors sat everywhere in the beg as well as towards the end of the plane - but none in the very tail. no "safe" zone to be noticed)
The order of appearance of saving crew and ambulance is pathetic. First were helping people out various locals, (and one was woken up by the bang and sped in his car to the place), then - there appeared an ambulance from the town, and the last one - own airport's!!
And the guy who jumped in his car and rode to the crash side and pulled out four people from the burning debris - he phoned "his village neighbour, airport director" and told him of the crash - and then that airport director from home called the ambulances. Interesting the airport director didn't wake up from the bang in his home, and did not sped there himself.