L-410 Reported Down Near Recife Brazil
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Let-410 PR-NOB from Brazilian regional airline NOAR, flying from Recife to Mossoro with a stop in Natal. 16 confirmed fatalities.
A sad day for Brazilian aviation.
A sad day for Brazilian aviation.
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I would dare to suspect to point out a probable cause: kites.
Kites, also called "pipas" by the local community is a kind of a "national kids sport" in Brasil.
Last time I flew to Brasil I have made an ASR due to a near-miss on final approach to SBRF Rwy 18 and have reported also to TWR.
Kites are a great game sport for kids (and adults), but present a potential danger to aviation when practiced near airports.
Kites, also called "pipas" by the local community is a kind of a "national kids sport" in Brasil.
Last time I flew to Brasil I have made an ASR due to a near-miss on final approach to SBRF Rwy 18 and have reported also to TWR.
Kites are a great game sport for kids (and adults), but present a potential danger to aviation when practiced near airports.
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Hi,
Kites here in Brazil are in fact very popular among kids. The funny thing is that they have seasons to play with kites that are during july and end/beggining of year when kids are on holidays of school. Neverthless, kites dont imposes such a risk to aircrafts that could lead to an accident. The reports so far about this aircraft is that it was grounded for several days on maintenance, some flights have been cancelled because of this, a friend of mine reported that a few days ago he saw this very same aircraft inside the company's hangar with mechanics doing some job on the rigth engine and today was probably his first flight after these checks. The pilot declared emergency right after take off, at first he said he was going to return to the airport landing on the opposite runway but right after that he declined and informed he was going for a forced landing on the beach.
Kites here in Brazil are in fact very popular among kids. The funny thing is that they have seasons to play with kites that are during july and end/beggining of year when kids are on holidays of school. Neverthless, kites dont imposes such a risk to aircrafts that could lead to an accident. The reports so far about this aircraft is that it was grounded for several days on maintenance, some flights have been cancelled because of this, a friend of mine reported that a few days ago he saw this very same aircraft inside the company's hangar with mechanics doing some job on the rigth engine and today was probably his first flight after these checks. The pilot declared emergency right after take off, at first he said he was going to return to the airport landing on the opposite runway but right after that he declined and informed he was going for a forced landing on the beach.
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The Black Boxes haven't been retrieved yet
Crash: NOAR L410 near Recife on Jul 13th 2011, lost height
Crash: NOAR L410 near Recife on Jul 13th 2011, lost height
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Quote:
I would dare to suspect to point out a probable cause: kites.
stepwilk, if your intention was to be fun, you may have succeeded in front of some idiotic audience.
Take a look at this link: Pipa (brinquedo)
and you may find that it is not so funny to find one of those things above 300ft in your landing flight path.
My last flight to REC was on the 9th of this month and I can tell you that the "pipa" I saw passing below my wing would certainly have made my day if it happened to be swallowed by my number one engine. It's called FOD. And may damage aircraft and engines.
The L410 is a turbo-prop engined aircraft and so, subjected to FOD. The structure of this kites is not only made of paper. Some of them are huge and do pose a risk to aviation.
I would dare to suspect to point out a probable cause: kites.
Like maybe the kite string got wrapped around one of the props and caused it to stop????
Take a look at this link: Pipa (brinquedo)
and you may find that it is not so funny to find one of those things above 300ft in your landing flight path.
My last flight to REC was on the 9th of this month and I can tell you that the "pipa" I saw passing below my wing would certainly have made my day if it happened to be swallowed by my number one engine. It's called FOD. And may damage aircraft and engines.
The L410 is a turbo-prop engined aircraft and so, subjected to FOD. The structure of this kites is not only made of paper. Some of them are huge and do pose a risk to aviation.
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Guys,
At 06:51lt there are no kites Airborne.
Let's wait and see. Investigation is on the way now. They got Voice and data recorders, an amateur video of the final 12 sec of the Flight (including the loss of control and crash) and several other important details and info.
Let them work!
All the best,
Sydy
At 06:51lt there are no kites Airborne.
Let's wait and see. Investigation is on the way now. They got Voice and data recorders, an amateur video of the final 12 sec of the Flight (including the loss of control and crash) and several other important details and info.
Let them work!
All the best,
Sydy
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It´s more danger a ballon than a kite in Brazil, also in June/July we have a lot cuz of the holidays, Anyway
Sad for the losts...in the local news have some rumours about the co-pilot reporting constant maintence problems in the aircraft, so let´s wait and see what CENIPA (Brazilian investigators) conclude.
PS: Sydy, Contato Radar didn´t expect you here, what a nice surprise
Sad for the losts...in the local news have some rumours about the co-pilot reporting constant maintence problems in the aircraft, so let´s wait and see what CENIPA (Brazilian investigators) conclude.
PS: Sydy, Contato Radar didn´t expect you here, what a nice surprise
Last edited by Charlie Alfa; 14th Jul 2011 at 12:27.
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Hi CA,
Contato Radar (another site) is nice, but I really like PPRuNe. Much more worldwide usable info in here.
News about that crash is that Noar decided to ground the other acft.
Cya,
Sydy
Contato Radar (another site) is nice, but I really like PPRuNe. Much more worldwide usable info in here.
News about that crash is that Noar decided to ground the other acft.
Cya,
Sydy
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How does a L410 perform in single-engine conditions? How often NOAR pilots do sim training? Some part135 operators in Brazil don't even send their pilots to the sim.
Anyway, watching the video it seems they could be flying below Vmca and entered into a spin. Not much left of the airplane, except for the tail and left wing...left tip tank is intact, maybe an indication that there was no fuel in it and weight and balance was not an issue (or at least they were below MTOW).
Brgds
Anyway, watching the video it seems they could be flying below Vmca and entered into a spin. Not much left of the airplane, except for the tail and left wing...left tip tank is intact, maybe an indication that there was no fuel in it and weight and balance was not an issue (or at least they were below MTOW).
Brgds
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Video of the plane going down
By what I can see it gets more and more right bank as the time passes by...
G1 - Vídeo registra avião instantes antes de cair no Recife - notícias em Brasil
By what I can see it gets more and more right bank as the time passes by...
G1 - Vídeo registra avião instantes antes de cair no Recife - notícias em Brasil
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The types of Kites common in Brazil are far less sophisticated than those presented on this wikipedia article, its basically made of 3 or 2 thin, +- 40cm wooden sticks and paper, yet it may impose some risks to aviation as F.O.D but I never heard about any accident caused by a kite here. It seens to me so far that the airplane suffered an engine failure and the pilot probably failed to feather the prop for some reason.
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Anyway, watching the video it seems they could be flying below Vmca and entered into a spin
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EP and GBV:
I agree with you both, it appears the airplane is on a too high angle of attack than normal and obviously banking too much for an engine out abnormal operation. apparently below Vmca in the video.
In the takeoff phase, the L-410 UVP and UVP-E will fly good enough with one engine if flown within its limits, if you can clean the airplane in schedule and the autofeather kicks in, or you manually feather, it will fly. If not, you're surely on a controlled descent (at MTOW). Stable, docile aircraft in general, predictable and heavy on the controls. Lands on a dime and takes off in a quarter.
The only L-410 sim I knew of was in Kiev in the early 90's. from my knowledge, through Latin America initials and recurrents are done in the actual airplane, no big deal if you know what you're doing and the trainee/trainer are of at least average experience for this type. (I would loved to have a sim in my time to take/impart training though).
Sad day, loss of life are never welcome news.
I agree with you both, it appears the airplane is on a too high angle of attack than normal and obviously banking too much for an engine out abnormal operation. apparently below Vmca in the video.
In the takeoff phase, the L-410 UVP and UVP-E will fly good enough with one engine if flown within its limits, if you can clean the airplane in schedule and the autofeather kicks in, or you manually feather, it will fly. If not, you're surely on a controlled descent (at MTOW). Stable, docile aircraft in general, predictable and heavy on the controls. Lands on a dime and takes off in a quarter.
The only L-410 sim I knew of was in Kiev in the early 90's. from my knowledge, through Latin America initials and recurrents are done in the actual airplane, no big deal if you know what you're doing and the trainee/trainer are of at least average experience for this type. (I would loved to have a sim in my time to take/impart training though).
Sad day, loss of life are never welcome news.
Last edited by supermoix; 14th Jul 2011 at 20:03. Reason: Spelling
Person Of Interest
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Most posters (posers) on this thread are nuts...
Nothing wrong with the Let... I had to "RIDE" on one while positioning when I worked in Point Noir in the Congo...Always a fine trip with Trans Air Congo...
Nor is there anything wrong with Brazilian Aviation...Flew there many, many times while working for a Major US Carrier...
Have any of you naysayers even considered the fact that these pilots did everything correct, but they just happened to have been dealt a "bad hand" on this particular day???
Didn't think so...Maybe some of you should think, however...
Nothing wrong with the Let... I had to "RIDE" on one while positioning when I worked in Point Noir in the Congo...Always a fine trip with Trans Air Congo...
Nor is there anything wrong with Brazilian Aviation...Flew there many, many times while working for a Major US Carrier...
Have any of you naysayers even considered the fact that these pilots did everything correct, but they just happened to have been dealt a "bad hand" on this particular day???
Didn't think so...Maybe some of you should think, however...