SWA 737 in the mud @KMDW
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Silverhawk, I do agree with you on the interpretation of the word "god" here - however I can not take it that "things will happen now and then".
That's not the way I conduct my flying buisness.
Everything I touch in that aircraft has been proven to work with a probability of failure 10to the -83rd power or something, the takeoff is calculated to a preciscion of single meters os stopmargin, I deal with single kilogramms on my loadsheet (that bag of mail), but landing is still a grey area, and noone is willing to do anything about it.
Every week, just read that aviation herald, at least one overrun is reported. Most of them end like this one, some tires got muddy, everyone disembarks shaken but unharmed. God give it, when it is my time to fall into the trap of the great unknown (of landing performance), that it will have a similar outcome.
But there is still no standard friction testing, no meaningful and mandatory figure to be reported by the airport authorities! And many pilots will refuse to take off into a TS, but I haven't heard many object to a landing in heavy rain. Depending on who you work for, there might not be that many options left ("What, you diverted because it was raining?").
To me, the runway excursion is the biggest safetyconcern to lineoperations today; I would trade my bulletproof door for a precise estimate on brake performance any day.
I am glad the guys of Southwest made it ok. But obviously it was pure luck (or fate, but that would put us back to the top of my post...)
That's not the way I conduct my flying buisness.
Everything I touch in that aircraft has been proven to work with a probability of failure 10to the -83rd power or something, the takeoff is calculated to a preciscion of single meters os stopmargin, I deal with single kilogramms on my loadsheet (that bag of mail), but landing is still a grey area, and noone is willing to do anything about it.
Every week, just read that aviation herald, at least one overrun is reported. Most of them end like this one, some tires got muddy, everyone disembarks shaken but unharmed. God give it, when it is my time to fall into the trap of the great unknown (of landing performance), that it will have a similar outcome.
But there is still no standard friction testing, no meaningful and mandatory figure to be reported by the airport authorities! And many pilots will refuse to take off into a TS, but I haven't heard many object to a landing in heavy rain. Depending on who you work for, there might not be that many options left ("What, you diverted because it was raining?").
To me, the runway excursion is the biggest safetyconcern to lineoperations today; I would trade my bulletproof door for a precise estimate on brake performance any day.
I am glad the guys of Southwest made it ok. But obviously it was pure luck (or fate, but that would put us back to the top of my post...)
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Looking at the photos thank goodness the chap didn't wind up hitting the EMAS.
Plane stuck in mud after sliding off runway at Midway Airport - PhotoGallery - Chicago Sun-Times
Plane stuck in mud after sliding off runway at Midway Airport - PhotoGallery - Chicago Sun-Times
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AVheralds have a GiggleMap and their proposal for the approximate position on their site Incident: Southwest B737 at Chicago on Apr 26th 2011, runway excursion on landing
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Judging by the photo, they missed the EMAS- precisely the place you'd want to steer the jet.
Perhaps they could not keep the jet straight. Perhaps they thought it would be better to put it in the mud. Maybe they thought they'd roll the dice and see if they could get it through the wall. I wonder what they were thinking. Perhaps Halfnut was driving.
Perhaps they could not keep the jet straight. Perhaps they thought it would be better to put it in the mud. Maybe they thought they'd roll the dice and see if they could get it through the wall. I wonder what they were thinking. Perhaps Halfnut was driving.
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Before it starts, there is nothing wrong with MDW, I used to fly 727s there and had no problems.
One just needs to bring his/her A-game.
One just needs to bring his/her A-game.
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FIRESYSOK - I guess you don't know humor.
con-pilot - I used to fly DC-9 into MDW too. That said any airline that operates thousands of flights each year into an airport like MDW with short runways and no overruns is only asking for a runway excursion every so often.
There is a reason the City of Chicago decided to build an all new airport years ago out at peach orchard on the edge of town when the jets started coming on line. Now LUV makes it part of their business model to go back into airports that were abandoned years ago.
con-pilot - I used to fly DC-9 into MDW too. That said any airline that operates thousands of flights each year into an airport like MDW with short runways and no overruns is only asking for a runway excursion every so often.
There is a reason the City of Chicago decided to build an all new airport years ago out at peach orchard on the edge of town when the jets started coming on line. Now LUV makes it part of their business model to go back into airports that were abandoned years ago.
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@Master CP: The boss and various associates in the back have informed me several times over the years they notice the difference when we land at MDW due mainly to firmer than usual plants - particularly when it's wet.
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on the bright side, they didn't blindly evacuate down the slides. they waited for the stairs and had the time to do so.
I've landed (and taken off too) DC9's and 737's at midway. You have to bring your A game is right. Well said CON PILOT.
I'm more worried about a rejected takeoff at midway than an over run on landing...
But, if anyone has the wx at the time of the accident/incident, please post. I heard an early report that said it was runway three one center...later on one three center...anyone know for sure?
The last over run, the guys didn't get reversers out for 18 seconds after landing...remember that one? There was also the use of auto brakes when it wasn't really authorized yet.
We had a saying, always on glideslope...except maybe for midway! you guys will know what I mean.
I've landed (and taken off too) DC9's and 737's at midway. You have to bring your A game is right. Well said CON PILOT.
I'm more worried about a rejected takeoff at midway than an over run on landing...
But, if anyone has the wx at the time of the accident/incident, please post. I heard an early report that said it was runway three one center...later on one three center...anyone know for sure?
The last over run, the guys didn't get reversers out for 18 seconds after landing...remember that one? There was also the use of auto brakes when it wasn't really authorized yet.
We had a saying, always on glideslope...except maybe for midway! you guys will know what I mean.
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@FlightSafety
I don't know what your experience is with KMDW but the reason they were on 13C probably had everything to do with the flow at KORD. I've routinely landed at KMDW with 25k x-winds because KORD dictates the runways.
I don't know what your experience is with KMDW but the reason they were on 13C probably had everything to do with the flow at KORD. I've routinely landed at KMDW with 25k x-winds because KORD dictates the runways.
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Judging by the photo, they missed the EMAS- precisely the place you'd want to steer the jet.
There is a giant red and white checkered blast fence at the end of the EMAS. One must consider that the instinct would be to steer away from the huge checkered blast fence taking over your field of vision, EMAS or no EMAS between the end of the runway and blast fence.
That is of course considering that he was in control and not hydroplaning.
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ORD vs. Midway
AS a pilot, you can request the runway you want at midway...ATC will tell you there will be a DELAY...this is their tactic to make you move things along THEIR WAY.
But put your foot down and instead of a 30 minute delay like they tell you, it will only be a couple of minutes...trust me, give it a try! but don't waver and have some fuel!!!
you might end up shooting an ILS 31 center and break off to make a VFR pattern to another runway...you might actually have to fly a traffic pattern!!!
But put your foot down and instead of a 30 minute delay like they tell you, it will only be a couple of minutes...trust me, give it a try! but don't waver and have some fuel!!!
you might end up shooting an ILS 31 center and break off to make a VFR pattern to another runway...you might actually have to fly a traffic pattern!!!
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What was he doing on 13C? Why wasn't he on 22L?
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It is a conundrum. Do pilots brief this? Do they have it in the back of their minds- if this goes long, I'm gonna keep it straight
Airlines don't teach anything regarding EMAS since it's not available everywhere, but you'd think more seasoned MDW users most likely know it's there, available, and will stop the airplane.
I agree, it was either not under control, or the instinct was to steer away from the wall/blast fence. I can see it now, mandated EMAS overrun training in my next sim. "Guys, just go straight ahead while I fail your brakes"
Airlines don't teach anything regarding EMAS since it's not available everywhere, but you'd think more seasoned MDW users most likely know it's there, available, and will stop the airplane.
I agree, it was either not under control, or the instinct was to steer away from the wall/blast fence. I can see it now, mandated EMAS overrun training in my next sim. "Guys, just go straight ahead while I fail your brakes"
Why wasn't he on 22L?
There are RNAV/GPS and/or circling approaches for 22L - but as mentioned, since they are non-precision, they have higher minimums. The RNAV is offset 15 degrees south to avoid the Loop highrise area, further reducing the precision.
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Everything I touch in that aircraft has been proven to work with a probability of failure 10to the -83rd power or something, (...)
