Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

AF A330 severe hard landing ccs

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

AF A330 severe hard landing ccs

Old 26th Apr 2011, 15:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 731
That case was an A320

Air Accidents Investigation: 4/2008 G-BXKD
Fargoo is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2011, 15:19
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the lake
Age: 78
Posts: 663
IIRC They had had a hard landing which cracked part of the main gear structure, I think the crew reported the hard landing and the onboard QAR recorded it also. Nothing was found during the required maintenance checks however, on the next departure, the gear failed to retract and so they returned at which point the damage was found following a further inspection.
It is not particularly unusual that a 'failure to retract' defect is traced to a warped/bent/broken or otherwise deteriorated component in the shock strut, causing the strut to not fully extend after T/O. The gear position/proximity sensors detect the imperfect geometry and refuse to allow the gear to retract thereby preventing potential secondary issues, like fouling of the gear on structure during retraction.
twochai is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2011, 15:26
  #23 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
I think MP is thinking of the Monarch ferried back from SFB to Manchester mid 2007 and a BMI 330 at Manchester with suspected fatigue cracked u/c due to water ingress?
BOAC is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2011, 15:46
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: エリア88
Posts: 1,035
It is not particularly unusual that a 'failure to retract' defect is traced to a warped/bent/broken or otherwise deteriorated component in the shock strut
Perhaps, but I think it is a little unusual if it turns out that it was caused by a previous heavy landing and then not picked up even though the damage is so severe that the gear actually collapses on the next touchdown, possibly it points to a deficiency in the maintenance procedure(s) for the hard land checks?

That case was an A320

Air Accidents Investigation: 4/2008 G-BXKD
Thanks, that was actually the incident I had in mind although I think I may have also got it slightly confused with the BMI A330 that BOAC mentioned. Did that one also have very similar problems and go undetected?

I'll have a look for the Monarch report, I don't think I remember that one.
Mercenary Pilot is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2011, 20:21
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: wales
Posts: 447
330/340 gear is unusual in that it has a 'shortening link' for the strut that enables the gear to fit in the bay. There have been one or two issues with this over the years and some inspections. There are sensors there so if they were defective they would prevent gear up selection.
bvcu is online now  
Old 26th Apr 2011, 20:33
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 174
> There have been one or two issues with this over the years and some inspections.


ONE OR TWO....????

To me, it seems like hundreds!

All those pins like SM7, SM8, SM9, the pintle pin, the chrome detachments, the corrosion, the threads chewn off.

HUNDREDS!
jettison valve is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 00:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 2,686
To me, it seems like hundreds!

All those pins like SM7, SM8, SM9, the pintle pin, the chrome detachments, the corrosion, the threads chewn off.

HUNDREDS!
I think I've led a sheltered life...
TURIN is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 01:26
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Floating around the planet
Posts: 383
Air France is becoming like KAL years ago.
A-3TWENTY is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 01:40
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
As professional aviators, none of us wish to see a major European airline experiencing significant safety lapses. Nonetheless, by any criteria Air France has an unenviable safety record - indeed many third world countries would boast significantly better figures. None of us would entertain the thought of a third world company with a terrible safety record being 'just unlucky', and it would be unwise to think that here. Maybe others with a more specific grasp of statistics could give us chapter and verse, but certainly among western airlines Air France must be near the bottom of the pile. That is not good for anyone - I would hope that someone, somewhere within Air France is looking at these incidents and drawing the appropriate conclusions. No airline is immune from accidents, but safety is really no accident and we should aspire to better than this.
Norman Stanley Fletcher is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 09:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Europe
Age: 51
Posts: 91
So what damage occurred?

This incident seems particularly hard to get info on. Both avherald and aviation-safety.net report a safe landing, but jacdec reports substantial structural damage. One poster (Vetech in #6) writes that AF confirmed a collapsed landing gear, which would be quite substantial indeed. Others have mentioned buckled fuselage. Depending on which of the information is accurate, the incident could be many things. So who will enlighten us with officially confirmed info?
Rengineer is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 10:50
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in the magical land of beer and chocolates
Age: 48
Posts: 505
Gear collapse ???

I think we're overreaching again, no gear collapse, but a MLG change is indeed needed (cracks found on MLG), after a hard landing due to windsheer in a TS.
Further repairs can be done after ferryflight back home.

About AF's safety record, it indeed is something that needs to be adressed ASAP, maybe they should take some classes from their partners in blue, they seem to be fairing much better in that regard.
kbrockman is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2011, 12:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,352
Can you truly imagine the French mentality accepting lessons from a nation so "blunt" as the other partner not really a marriage made in heaven if you are familiar with the social/cultural personality traits of the two, I would humbly suggest.
Anyhow, KLM are not exactly blemish free non plus, if we think back to when. . . . . Oh, wasn't it just last year when one of their finest launched from a taxi-way at home base. ?
captplaystation is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 01:12
  #33 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: venezuela
Posts: 7
hello again,

Collapsed RH main gear is confirmed, seen on arrival.
Also alot of findings(marked) so far on the fuselage, not sure what they found in the fuel tanks but they are still open on the RH side.

AF brought a 747-400ERF yesterday with 70 tons of equipment and parts!!
I have photos, will post tonight.
They have alot of manpower here also..
VeTech is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 03:07
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere out there...
Posts: 200
Air France have a culture problem - plain and simple. Unfortunately they are too arrogant to accept this. They should take a page out of Korean Air's book and address their cultural issues head on. French culture is pretty unique in Europe - Gert Hofstede showed that clearly. AFR have 3 safety related threads on the front page - if this was an African or Asian airline there would be cries for the company to be blacklisted.
Busbert is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 04:50
  #35 (permalink)  
bearfoil
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Who on Earth will mentor Air France....
 
Old 30th Apr 2011, 07:57
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: EU
Posts: 82
France is an elitist country.
To access a management position you've got to be gratuated from the best schools like Polytechnique or HEC.
AF has the same recruitment logic for pilots only based on psycho.
At the end they've got a lot of pilots gratuated from the best schools but that have been choosing this job for salary only.
People at AF are brainwashed as to be the best of alls and they have a high picture of their Airline.
They think nothing can happen as they are flying in an AF stamped aircraft.
Proudiness is a consequence of the Airline culture but is not a general french attitude don't misunderstand with sense of honor.
Most of the french pilots including a lot of AF one's are sorry of what happens in the airline and of the image of France that is given by AF.
australiancalou is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 07:59
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 946
Who on Earth will mentor Air France....
How about BA
Johnm is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 08:30
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: formally Cyprus, now UK
Posts: 346
If there is an undercarraige problem indicated, and you have to burn fuel for THREE hours, and then risk a heavy landing, isn't it more logical to proceed to your destination to make the landing ?
cyflyer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 08:39
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
Posts: 909
Was the structural damage (ie fuselage/structure or wing) caused by the initial hard landing, that went un-noticed during the hard landing inspection that should have been carried out? (if it was carried out).
Ngineer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2011, 09:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Crew lounge
Posts: 87
isn't it more logical to proceed to your destination to make the landing ?
It's not, for one very basic reason : with the fuel on board and the landing gear extended the plane would have been out of fuel by the middle of the Atlantic ocean.
GerardC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.