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AF A330 severe hard landing ccs

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AF A330 severe hard landing ccs

Old 26th Apr 2011, 14:07
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That case was an A320

Air Accidents Investigation: 4/2008 G-BXKD
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 14:19
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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IIRC They had had a hard landing which cracked part of the main gear structure, I think the crew reported the hard landing and the onboard QAR recorded it also. Nothing was found during the required maintenance checks however, on the next departure, the gear failed to retract and so they returned at which point the damage was found following a further inspection.
It is not particularly unusual that a 'failure to retract' defect is traced to a warped/bent/broken or otherwise deteriorated component in the shock strut, causing the strut to not fully extend after T/O. The gear position/proximity sensors detect the imperfect geometry and refuse to allow the gear to retract thereby preventing potential secondary issues, like fouling of the gear on structure during retraction.
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 14:26
  #23 (permalink)  
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I think MP is thinking of the Monarch ferried back from SFB to Manchester mid 2007 and a BMI 330 at Manchester with suspected fatigue cracked u/c due to water ingress?
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 14:46
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It is not particularly unusual that a 'failure to retract' defect is traced to a warped/bent/broken or otherwise deteriorated component in the shock strut
Perhaps, but I think it is a little unusual if it turns out that it was caused by a previous heavy landing and then not picked up even though the damage is so severe that the gear actually collapses on the next touchdown, possibly it points to a deficiency in the maintenance procedure(s) for the hard land checks?

That case was an A320

Air Accidents Investigation: 4/2008 G-BXKD
Thanks, that was actually the incident I had in mind although I think I may have also got it slightly confused with the BMI A330 that BOAC mentioned. Did that one also have very similar problems and go undetected?

I'll have a look for the Monarch report, I don't think I remember that one.
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 19:21
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330/340 gear is unusual in that it has a 'shortening link' for the strut that enables the gear to fit in the bay. There have been one or two issues with this over the years and some inspections. There are sensors there so if they were defective they would prevent gear up selection.
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 19:33
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> There have been one or two issues with this over the years and some inspections.


ONE OR TWO....????

To me, it seems like hundreds!

All those pins like SM7, SM8, SM9, the pintle pin, the chrome detachments, the corrosion, the threads chewn off.

HUNDREDS!
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Old 26th Apr 2011, 23:48
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To me, it seems like hundreds!

All those pins like SM7, SM8, SM9, the pintle pin, the chrome detachments, the corrosion, the threads chewn off.

HUNDREDS!
I think I've led a sheltered life...
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Old 27th Apr 2011, 00:26
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Air France is becoming like KAL years ago.
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Old 27th Apr 2011, 00:40
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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As professional aviators, none of us wish to see a major European airline experiencing significant safety lapses. Nonetheless, by any criteria Air France has an unenviable safety record - indeed many third world countries would boast significantly better figures. None of us would entertain the thought of a third world company with a terrible safety record being 'just unlucky', and it would be unwise to think that here. Maybe others with a more specific grasp of statistics could give us chapter and verse, but certainly among western airlines Air France must be near the bottom of the pile. That is not good for anyone - I would hope that someone, somewhere within Air France is looking at these incidents and drawing the appropriate conclusions. No airline is immune from accidents, but safety is really no accident and we should aspire to better than this.
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Old 27th Apr 2011, 08:07
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So what damage occurred?

This incident seems particularly hard to get info on. Both avherald and aviation-safety.net report a safe landing, but jacdec reports substantial structural damage. One poster (Vetech in #6) writes that AF confirmed a collapsed landing gear, which would be quite substantial indeed. Others have mentioned buckled fuselage. Depending on which of the information is accurate, the incident could be many things. So who will enlighten us with officially confirmed info?
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Old 27th Apr 2011, 09:50
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Gear collapse ???

I think we're overreaching again, no gear collapse, but a MLG change is indeed needed (cracks found on MLG), after a hard landing due to windsheer in a TS.
Further repairs can be done after ferryflight back home.

About AF's safety record, it indeed is something that needs to be adressed ASAP, maybe they should take some classes from their partners in blue, they seem to be fairing much better in that regard.
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Old 27th Apr 2011, 11:21
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Can you truly imagine the French mentality accepting lessons from a nation so "blunt" as the other partner not really a marriage made in heaven if you are familiar with the social/cultural personality traits of the two, I would humbly suggest.
Anyhow, KLM are not exactly blemish free non plus, if we think back to when. . . . . Oh, wasn't it just last year when one of their finest launched from a taxi-way at home base. ?
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 00:12
  #33 (permalink)  
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hello again,

Collapsed RH main gear is confirmed, seen on arrival.
Also alot of findings(marked) so far on the fuselage, not sure what they found in the fuel tanks but they are still open on the RH side.

AF brought a 747-400ERF yesterday with 70 tons of equipment and parts!!
I have photos, will post tonight.
They have alot of manpower here also..
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 02:07
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Air France have a culture problem - plain and simple. Unfortunately they are too arrogant to accept this. They should take a page out of Korean Air's book and address their cultural issues head on. French culture is pretty unique in Europe - Gert Hofstede showed that clearly. AFR have 3 safety related threads on the front page - if this was an African or Asian airline there would be cries for the company to be blacklisted.
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 03:50
  #35 (permalink)  
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Who on Earth will mentor Air France....
 
Old 30th Apr 2011, 06:57
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France is an elitist country.
To access a management position you've got to be gratuated from the best schools like Polytechnique or HEC.
AF has the same recruitment logic for pilots only based on psycho.
At the end they've got a lot of pilots gratuated from the best schools but that have been choosing this job for salary only.
People at AF are brainwashed as to be the best of alls and they have a high picture of their Airline.
They think nothing can happen as they are flying in an AF stamped aircraft.
Proudiness is a consequence of the Airline culture but is not a general french attitude don't misunderstand with sense of honor.
Most of the french pilots including a lot of AF one's are sorry of what happens in the airline and of the image of France that is given by AF.
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 06:59
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Who on Earth will mentor Air France....
How about BA
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 07:30
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If there is an undercarraige problem indicated, and you have to burn fuel for THREE hours, and then risk a heavy landing, isn't it more logical to proceed to your destination to make the landing ?
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 07:39
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Was the structural damage (ie fuselage/structure or wing) caused by the initial hard landing, that went un-noticed during the hard landing inspection that should have been carried out? (if it was carried out).
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 08:06
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isn't it more logical to proceed to your destination to make the landing ?
It's not, for one very basic reason : with the fuel on board and the landing gear extended the plane would have been out of fuel by the middle of the Atlantic ocean.
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