Air India Captain Arrested
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Air India Captain Arrested
Air India Captain JK Verma was arrested in DEL last night.
Flying with a DGCA issued licence, on the basis of forged exam mark-sheets submited to th DGCA.
Flying with a DGCA issued licence, on the basis of forged exam mark-sheets submited to th DGCA.
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You shall be reminded, soon enough. You won't wanna know the percentage of similar cheats.
I don't even dare to disclose the speculated number of "Captains" who should be shxtxng bricks now. Some folks in the know already said it depends on how serious DGCA is willing to get, most likely, a few more scapegoats will do the trick in calming the public.
P.S In India, ALL airline pilots, one day FO to Senior Captain, are Captains.
I don't even dare to disclose the speculated number of "Captains" who should be shxtxng bricks now. Some folks in the know already said it depends on how serious DGCA is willing to get, most likely, a few more scapegoats will do the trick in calming the public.
P.S In India, ALL airline pilots, one day FO to Senior Captain, are Captains.
Break_Break said
Why not. You should disclose it so the public can get an idea of how serious the problem is in Indian aviation. ICAO should be coming down on them like a tonne of bricks. If other states were serious about aviation safety they would also ban all Indian registerers aircraft and all pilots who originally got an Indian ATPL until they can be verified that they actually have all passes in their subjects and their hours are correct. With the exception of some 3rd world countries and china (that's another story), most CAA's would charge you with fraud and take away your license for life if you attempted any stunts like this.
This industry really has turned to $h!t.
I don't even dare to disclose the speculated number of "Captains" who should be shxtxng bricks now
This industry really has turned to $h!t.
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flyhardmo
Totally agree. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
The Indian authorities are too busy trying to kick out the foreign pilots, who have bonafide verifiable licenses. To do this they have passed an imbecilic directive for the foreign licence holders to sit an initial, military medical examination. Most, if not all candidates are failing.
What utter folly.
Totally agree. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
The Indian authorities are too busy trying to kick out the foreign pilots, who have bonafide verifiable licenses. To do this they have passed an imbecilic directive for the foreign licence holders to sit an initial, military medical examination. Most, if not all candidates are failing.
What utter folly.
To do this they have passed an imbecilic directive for the foreign licence holders to sit an initial, military medical examination. Most, if not all candidates are failing.
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If other states were serious about aviation safety they would also ban all Indian registered aircraft and all pilots who originally got an Indian ATPL until they can be verified that they actually have all passes in their subjects and their hours are correct.
The problem in India is the regulator itself. Absolute Bureaucracy with Obsolete Machinery. Until 2001, Civil Aviation Ministry and Department was an insignificant and uncared for branch of the Indian Government. There were only few players in the Industry of which only Air India, Indian Airlines, Jet Airways and Air Sahara were playing an significant role. The common man of India was not interested in any aspect of Civil Aviation as flying as an air passenger was beyond his reach. But post the open skies policy and liberalization of the Indian Skies and subsequent start up of Low Cost and Regional Carriers. Civil Aviation Department began to handle tasks and work loads which is well beyond its capacity. Even though the number of aircraft and passengers have increased exponentially and even as orders for hundreds of aircraft are made from the American and European Plane Makers, the age old mind set and the official work culture still remains of that of stone age.
Government of India must wake up the urgent demands of the Indian Civil Aviation Industry. Merely constructing Swanky terminals or merging airlines wouldnt help. The DGCA must immedeately wake up to the changes happening with the Global Civil Aviation Regulators. If necessary, ammend age old rules of 1937 to the needs of 2011 and beyond. Safely and Expeditiously must be the motto. There needs a big change in all the aspects from people who are in the tables of power to the crew examinations, licensing, medicals etc.
The pilot who got himself busted is merely an victim of the entire machinery.
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A wee bit off thread.......
Of course, those at Gulf Air in the mid 90's will remember that their was a certain son of the ruler of Abu Dhabi who decided to become a pilot. On his return from Florida after completing his multi/IFR (and without any interview for the position of pilot as Daddy of course had a 25% interest in the airline) further training with GF was scheduled in Doha. On arrival at the sim, your man walked into the box and sat in the Left Seat. The instructor was mortified......what was he to do? Ask his highness that he might well have to sit in the Right Seat for just a little while at least to get the 'hang of things'. How disrespectful! Of course that would have jeopardized his job, so he said nothing. After loads and loads and loads of sim he was onto the line with the caveat that he was only allowed fly with 2 designated very Senior local Instructors.
This story was conveyed to me by expat Tony ( Instuctor) in the London Pub one afternoon. He was quite upset as he had just returned from DOH after just having completed a few days training with you know who. Tony explained that
he just could not fly a single-engine approach, so much so that Tony said that he even explained to boy wonder that he would place him on a Cavok 10 mile final and that he would fail the right hand engine. he then explained that all his highness would have to do is land and come to a full stop. I asked what happened and he said that your man had continually crashed just short of the threshold 30 deg off the RWY Heading AFTER having given him 10 try's. "I tried everything to give this guy a break, but in my conscience I just couldn't pass him, so I think it's the end for me." I asked, so where to from here and he said that they had sent Majid over (from Bahrain) to PASS him......and you think India's bad......same story, different DGCA!
Of course, those at Gulf Air in the mid 90's will remember that their was a certain son of the ruler of Abu Dhabi who decided to become a pilot. On his return from Florida after completing his multi/IFR (and without any interview for the position of pilot as Daddy of course had a 25% interest in the airline) further training with GF was scheduled in Doha. On arrival at the sim, your man walked into the box and sat in the Left Seat. The instructor was mortified......what was he to do? Ask his highness that he might well have to sit in the Right Seat for just a little while at least to get the 'hang of things'. How disrespectful! Of course that would have jeopardized his job, so he said nothing. After loads and loads and loads of sim he was onto the line with the caveat that he was only allowed fly with 2 designated very Senior local Instructors.
This story was conveyed to me by expat Tony ( Instuctor) in the London Pub one afternoon. He was quite upset as he had just returned from DOH after just having completed a few days training with you know who. Tony explained that
he just could not fly a single-engine approach, so much so that Tony said that he even explained to boy wonder that he would place him on a Cavok 10 mile final and that he would fail the right hand engine. he then explained that all his highness would have to do is land and come to a full stop. I asked what happened and he said that your man had continually crashed just short of the threshold 30 deg off the RWY Heading AFTER having given him 10 try's. "I tried everything to give this guy a break, but in my conscience I just couldn't pass him, so I think it's the end for me." I asked, so where to from here and he said that they had sent Majid over (from Bahrain) to PASS him......and you think India's bad......same story, different DGCA!
Last edited by publius; 13th Mar 2011 at 16:52. Reason: Grammar of course
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I'm shocked...
just shocked that is happening in such a country that's trailing the leading edge of technology. At least he had a current first class Air Force Medical
!
just shocked that is happening in such a country that's trailing the leading edge of technology. At least he had a current first class Air Force Medical!
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Well if that Gulf Air story is true Ive never heard of it,and I was there at the time.All local pilots were given thorough training. Indeed I flew with the Emir of Qatar,s nephew on many trips when he was under training and he,like all the other trainees understood the requirements of formal basic and line training.
Perhaps "Tony" had a few too many beers !!
Perhaps "Tony" had a few too many beers !!
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So, if there is any truth to these allegations, will we see any Indian carriers on the EU blacklist some day soon?
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Seek and ye shall find 411A
Air India pilot arrested for forged papers - The Times of India
Air India pilot arrested for forged papers - The Times of India
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spitoon, black list only comes into effect after a major disaster I would think. for as long as they're landing their planes on the strip foreseen for the purpose it's all right and hy-de-hoe...
usually there's first a serious accident and then a ban or restriction or whatever.
usually there's first a serious accident and then a ban or restriction or whatever.
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A411 wrote:
Just where is the report in the local Indian newspapers?
IE: so far, no source confirmed.
A hoax, perhaps.
Maybe A411 is a hoax himself...
Just where is the report in the local Indian newspapers?
IE: so far, no source confirmed.
A hoax, perhaps.
Maybe A411 is a hoax himself...
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In the interests of common decency...
Perhaps the names of the individuals involved should be withheld from this forum, until such time as all facts are known, and the official reports published.
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A mate of mine is a widebody captain with a major Asian carrier. Two years ago now, he flew (heavy crew) with another captain, an Indian, who was a recently arrived DEC, supposedly from the airline I was then working for where he'd supposedly been a 777 captain.
My mate was so appalled with this "captain's" standard of operation, he asked me if I knew the man and whether he had maybe left my airline under a cloud.
I didn't know him, but checked the seniority list (current and old ones) just to make sure.
No such name, and I asked around among the trainers and checkies and no one had ever heard of him.
Many years ago now (20+), I did an interview sim. ride, where one of the other pilots being interviewed with me was an Indian A320 "captain". Long story short: he crashed the simulator (an A300) quite spectaculalry because he had no idea how to trim the aircraft after an engine failure.
I strongly suspect there's a very large Parker Pen factory somewhere in India.
My mate was so appalled with this "captain's" standard of operation, he asked me if I knew the man and whether he had maybe left my airline under a cloud.
I didn't know him, but checked the seniority list (current and old ones) just to make sure.
No such name, and I asked around among the trainers and checkies and no one had ever heard of him.
Many years ago now (20+), I did an interview sim. ride, where one of the other pilots being interviewed with me was an Indian A320 "captain". Long story short: he crashed the simulator (an A300) quite spectaculalry because he had no idea how to trim the aircraft after an engine failure.
I strongly suspect there's a very large Parker Pen factory somewhere in India.
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flyhardmo
I understand that Pprune is meant to be for RUMOUR. However, the implication is too unfair, for the majority of Indian pilot population. In any case, it won't be long before more are exposed.
Now we all know many Indian pilots will cry innocent, but for the last 10 years or so, there were just way too many over zealous young pilots who have been in a big rush to become the youngest achiever of every rank. And what is more disappointing, is the Airlines themselves are condoning it, or even to certain extent, encourages it so as to have a short term fix to their lack of qualified commercial pilots. Now, they will face the most dire consequence of all, paying with hopefully not, the pax's blood to solve this disgusting practice.
At least from what I told further, at least couple of recruitment agencies have temporarily delayed any submission of Indian licences for job application till this issue is resolved.
The following article was copied from another posting in South East Asia forum to further understand how the system works.
I understand that Pprune is meant to be for RUMOUR. However, the implication is too unfair, for the majority of Indian pilot population. In any case, it won't be long before more are exposed.
Now we all know many Indian pilots will cry innocent, but for the last 10 years or so, there were just way too many over zealous young pilots who have been in a big rush to become the youngest achiever of every rank. And what is more disappointing, is the Airlines themselves are condoning it, or even to certain extent, encourages it so as to have a short term fix to their lack of qualified commercial pilots. Now, they will face the most dire consequence of all, paying with hopefully not, the pax's blood to solve this disgusting practice.
At least from what I told further, at least couple of recruitment agencies have temporarily delayed any submission of Indian licences for job application till this issue is resolved.
The following article was copied from another posting in South East Asia forum to further understand how the system works.
Pilots with fake licences getting conned themselves?
NEW DELHI: Fake commanders who fudged marksheets to get to the captain's seat may have been conned themselves. Here's how: co-pilots failing the exam to become commanders are routinely approached by touts with the promise of having their papers "re-evaluated" for the pass mark required.
And with the DGCA exam database being inaccessible to even its head office, verification is not possible at the time of submission.
Pilots cough up between Rs 5 lakh and Rs 7 lakh (sometimes as a bank draft) for a package deal — real marksheets with no reds and a Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) licence for commandership. But what the commanders do not realize is that the middlemen may after all be handing them fake marksheets that will show up when checked with the original database.
The double-con came to light when top aviation officials began probing licences on the directive of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation after a woman pilot repeatedly landing on the nosewheel was found to have forged a marksheet. "A number of industry people have told us middlemen involved in this racket ask the co-pilots to fill up forms for re-evaluation and even take bank drafts to make it look real," said an official connected with the probe. "They are learnt to ask for Rs 5-7 lakh for this task and then (for) getting a licence issued. Co-pilots see this as a foolproof way of doing an illegal thing."
But what pushes co-pilots to acquire an airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) by fraudulent means, paying a huge "fee" to boot? "By the time a co-pilot is eligible to become commander in terms of number of hours flown, his or her monthly salary is about Rs 2 lakh," said an official. "On becoming commander, the salary doubles to Rs 4 lakh. If someone is not able to pass the ATPL exam, the monetary loss is a whopping Rs 24 lakh annually. So it makes economic sense for such people to pay Rs 5-7 lakh and become a commander as the cost will be recovered in just four months."
What makes the job easier for the tout and his client alike is that the DGCA has no way of verifying the documents at the time of submission. Marksheets are issued to pilots from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation's central examination office in R K Puram, south Delhi. These have to be submitted, along with other documents, at the DGCA's head office opposite Safdarjung Airport.
The head office cannot cross-check the documents against the Directorate General of Civil Aviation database because the exam office computers are not part of the intra-network. Not by accident, though. Exam records were kept delinked to prevent hackers from getting through — now working to the benefit of those forging their papers to fly millions across the country and abroad.
Officials say checks will be put in place now, before licences are issued. "There were some cases where people submitted fake education degrees and we started verifying them with the universities. Now, we are devising way to cross-check the marksheets submitted for issuance of licences with original records. This will be done even if it means a delay of a couple of days in the licence process," said a senior official.
NEW DELHI: Fake commanders who fudged marksheets to get to the captain's seat may have been conned themselves. Here's how: co-pilots failing the exam to become commanders are routinely approached by touts with the promise of having their papers "re-evaluated" for the pass mark required.
And with the DGCA exam database being inaccessible to even its head office, verification is not possible at the time of submission.
Pilots cough up between Rs 5 lakh and Rs 7 lakh (sometimes as a bank draft) for a package deal — real marksheets with no reds and a Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) licence for commandership. But what the commanders do not realize is that the middlemen may after all be handing them fake marksheets that will show up when checked with the original database.
The double-con came to light when top aviation officials began probing licences on the directive of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation after a woman pilot repeatedly landing on the nosewheel was found to have forged a marksheet. "A number of industry people have told us middlemen involved in this racket ask the co-pilots to fill up forms for re-evaluation and even take bank drafts to make it look real," said an official connected with the probe. "They are learnt to ask for Rs 5-7 lakh for this task and then (for) getting a licence issued. Co-pilots see this as a foolproof way of doing an illegal thing."
But what pushes co-pilots to acquire an airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) by fraudulent means, paying a huge "fee" to boot? "By the time a co-pilot is eligible to become commander in terms of number of hours flown, his or her monthly salary is about Rs 2 lakh," said an official. "On becoming commander, the salary doubles to Rs 4 lakh. If someone is not able to pass the ATPL exam, the monetary loss is a whopping Rs 24 lakh annually. So it makes economic sense for such people to pay Rs 5-7 lakh and become a commander as the cost will be recovered in just four months."
What makes the job easier for the tout and his client alike is that the DGCA has no way of verifying the documents at the time of submission. Marksheets are issued to pilots from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation's central examination office in R K Puram, south Delhi. These have to be submitted, along with other documents, at the DGCA's head office opposite Safdarjung Airport.
The head office cannot cross-check the documents against the Directorate General of Civil Aviation database because the exam office computers are not part of the intra-network. Not by accident, though. Exam records were kept delinked to prevent hackers from getting through — now working to the benefit of those forging their papers to fly millions across the country and abroad.
Officials say checks will be put in place now, before licences are issued. "There were some cases where people submitted fake education degrees and we started verifying them with the universities. Now, we are devising way to cross-check the marksheets submitted for issuance of licences with original records. This will be done even if it means a delay of a couple of days in the licence process," said a senior official.