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Crash-Cork Airport

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Crash-Cork Airport

Old 17th Mar 2013, 21:49
  #1181 (permalink)  
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The most dangerous thing in aviation is an engineer with a pen

The second most dangerous thing is a pilot with a screwdriver

Or indeed, as Swiss Army knife.
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 21:58
  #1182 (permalink)  
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The most dangerous thing in aviation is an engineer with a pen

The second most dangerous thing is a pilot with a screwdriver

Or indeed, as Swiss Army knife.

Sarcasm aside, I can't resist posting this link. I could not have got into that stub-wing without me knife.

We'd been AOG on that aircraft for 15 hours.



http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/2...ml#post2768062
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 17:26
  #1183 (permalink)  
 
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Documentary

An extraordinary documentary on the Manx2 crash just broadcast on TG4, the Irish language station here in Ireland. Not sensational, just telling the stories, including one of a pilot who, for his family, became the seventh victim of this crash.
Simply told and very moving. Whatever the reasons behind the crash, the programme reminded me of the human involvement.
And the same goes for all such occurences.
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 19:20
  #1184 (permalink)  
 
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Cork crash

Reminiscent of the 1988 C90 G-BNAT crash at EGNX caused by a faulty R/E compressor bleed valve which led to assymetric go around . AAIB report no.9/88 for those interested. Wx was also marginal at the time of this accident. Lots of similarities between this and the current I`d say.
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 16:42
  #1185 (permalink)  
 
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Not so sure. This was a perfectly serviceable aircraft
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 18:32
  #1186 (permalink)  
 
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Cork crash

Elephant & Castle how can you be so sure. So they thought was the C90, until of course that fateful moment when one donk decided it was time to quit. Or perhaps the ladies of fate got fed up with crochet and picked up a piece of Swiss cheese instead.
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 19:00
  #1187 (permalink)  
 
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Since I was not there I am not "sure" of anything at all. However the facts that have been presented so far are two approaches below minimums followed by a fatal third. The aircraft appears to have been serviceable until impact. Sadly the lessons to learn here seem to point on the Human Factors direction.

If you have factual information to the contrary please share it.

Even if an engine failed (of which there is no evidence) it should have been manageable. An engine failure at minimums is a handful, at 30 feet in IMC a complete disaster. Surely the point here is that busting the minima repeatedly they did stack the odds against themselves should anything at all go wrong.
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Old 3rd Sep 2013, 18:15
  #1188 (permalink)  
 
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CORK CRASH

In response to Elephant & Castle`s invitation to share factual information I suggest reference to Ulster Herald`s report of 12 February 2013, at the following web link.

Report into Cork plane crash delayed by Spanish documents

In particular to the following extract therefrom:

The investigation unit last year revealed problems with engine number two of the twin turboprop Fairchild Metroliner which could have caused an uneven thrust from the wings.

I trust this may sufficent to show that my comments were not mere speculation.
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Old 3rd Sep 2013, 19:54
  #1189 (permalink)  
 
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The fact the there may or may not have been an issue with one of the engines does not change the central fact of this accident. The pilots not once, not twice, but three times deliberately chose to continue the approach below minimums.

Cat 1 limits mean that even in the event of an aircraft malfunction you should still have enough room to recover and overshoot. By conducting an illegal below minimums approach they gave away that margin with tragic results.

The take away is clear. Don't continue below DH unless you absolutely have the required visual reference. If your employer has a problem with that you need to find a new job, I did just that early in my career. It was hard at the time but it was one of the best decision I have ever made.
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Old 4th Sep 2013, 15:55
  #1190 (permalink)  
 
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The investigation unit last year revealed problems with engine number two of the twin turboprop Fairchild Metroliner which could have caused an uneven thrust from the wings.
This was mentioned early in this thread and, although I appreciate that there are now 1200 plus posts, I would humbly suggest that posters read them before posting supposedly new information.

To repeat some of that information, this type of aircraft is known to be tricky at low speeds and in addition it is likely that there was a thrust differential between the engines. It is also likely that the crew knew this. As Big Pistons Forever has stated, this does not change the essential facts of the accident.

The main reason that the final report is delayed is because of the difficulty in dealing with the paper-chase in Spain.
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Old 4th Sep 2013, 18:10
  #1191 (permalink)  
 
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in addition it is likely that there was a thrust differential between the engines
Which is common with all aircraft fitted with these engines.

I suspect this is going to go into next year now.

I actually feel quite a bit for the Irish. This must be a huge outlay of man power over the years.

James Healy-Pratt, Partner at Stewarts Law, comments on Cork plane crash lawsuit

I don't know if this has been on the thread before.
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Old 27th Jan 2014, 15:16
  #1192 (permalink)  
 
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Cork plane crash report due within days
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 07:05
  #1193 (permalink)  
 
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AAIU Report out today

The AAIU full accident report will be published today at 1100 hrs. It is a comprehensive 240 pages in length, and a worthwhile read on a variety of operational factors. I suspect it will can be downloaded direct from the AAIU website today.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 07:16
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@ Swiss

We await with impatience to read your forthcoming comments!!
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 10:26
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http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...202014-001.pdf

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...2014-001_0.pdf
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 11:35
  #1196 (permalink)  
 
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  • Pilots had improper training.
  • Reverse thrust activated whilst airborne.
  • Both pilots fatigued.
  • Spanish regulator contributed to crash through inadequate oversight - AESA was "unaware" Flightline BCN operated in Ireland.
  • The relationship between All 3 companies (Manx2, Flightline BCN, Air Lada) was inappropriate and breached existing laws.
  • All 3 attempts breached weather minimums and improper planning into the expected weather conditions at Cork by the pilots
  • Legal teams on behalf of bereaved family's expected to "act" on findings.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 11:41
  #1197 (permalink)  
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How terribly sad, I remember reading reports like this 25 years ago. I would hope prosecutions would be forthcoming.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 12:09
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"The european commission should review the obligation of member states to implement penalties, as a result of transgressions, including flight time limitations"

"Easa should ensure a comprehensive syllabus for appointment to commander and that appropriate command training and checking is carried out"

Etc. Some very clear recommendations. I wonder how the Spanish authorities will react.

The conclusions, findings, causes and recommendations are thought provoking to read. Lots of issues uncovered there. Very sobering. Makes me wonder if this was some unscrupulous banana republic outfit, or europe in 2011. Sad indeed.

Last edited by deptrai; 28th Jan 2014 at 12:31.
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 12:28
  #1199 (permalink)  
 
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Pages 150-154, "Conclusions", really paints a dark picture of this operation. It also shows that the Spanish authorities are not, or at least were not, doing their job....

As F14 already said, how sad to see that these type of operations are still around and that there are still untrained and not properly qualified crew out there operating commercial flights.....
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Old 28th Jan 2014, 12:53
  #1200 (permalink)  
 
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"No evidence was found of the effective employment of Crew Resource Management principles"
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