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Finally some action made by DGCA

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Finally some action made by DGCA

Old 22nd Dec 2010, 13:53
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Finally some action made by DGCA

MUMBAI: A senior SpiceJet pilot lost his licence to test other pilots after he flew a Boeing 737 with his unqualified son in the co-pilot's seat in the cruise phase of three commercial flights between Delhi, Hyderabad and Coimbatore. The incident occurred during a training routine.

The examiner's son was a fresh commercial pilot licence holder who had joined SpiceJet as a trainee. In May last year, at the time of the incident, he was not type-rated for Boeing 737 but his dad let him into the cockpit. The test pilot, who's also a SpiceJet general manager, was stripped of his examiner status for five years last month by the DGCA after several probes.

A fresh CPL holder is generally trained only to fly piston-engine aircraft that operate at speeds in the range of 80-130 knots (150-240 kmph) and need only a single pilot.

Aircraft like B737 demands several crew and operates at speeds of more than 300 knots (over 555 kmph). In 1994, a probe into the crash of a Russian Aeroflot flight that killed 75 passengers and crew revealed that the pilot's 15-year-old son was at the controls of the A310 aircraft.

"A training captain acting on behalf of DGCA and a licence holder is expected to display discipline, professionalism and ensure compliance of the regulatory frame work," said the DGCA order of November 19. "In matters of air safety, leeway is given to no one. These kind of matters also bring a bad name to the sector and will not be tolerated," said director-general of civil aviation Bharat Bhushan. TOI sent a questionnaire to SpiceJet on Monday but the airline said its spokesperson was not available for comment.

"The examiner's son occupied the co-pilot's seat on SpiceJet's Delhi-Hyderabad, Hyderabad-Coimbatore and Coimbatore-Delhi flights, all of which were operated on 17 May, 2009," said a source.

The three flights were flown by three trainee commanders who were undergoing their upgrade training under the instructorship of the suspended examiner. An upgrade training moves a co-pilot to a commander's position. During such flights, the trainee commander occupies the left-hand seat and the examiner is on the right, that is, the co-pilot's seat.

However, during the above mentioned three flights, the examiner's son occupied the right-hand seat after the aircraft was cruising. The examiner himself was in jump seat, located behind the pilot's seat. "Had there been an emergency, the trainee commander would not have been able to handle it," said the source. The SpiceJet violation case came under DGCA lens after then DGCA boss Nasim Zaidi received an anonymous mail in July last year.
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 13:56
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The Pilot should be grounded for ever including his son. so that such incidents do not occur in future where passenger safety is compromised. Crew should not be afraid of lodging such complaints and their identity should be kept confidential
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 13:59
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Had there been an emergency, the trainee commander would not have been able to handle it," said the source.
Kind of says it all after all the farcical nonsense coming out of India Anyone want to buy some of my hours
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 14:03
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The DGCA needs to get the balls to remove a few AOC's, actually it really needs to come out and say to the world it is not fit for purpose... Start afresh!


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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 14:59
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I don't know why this action seems to me like a "look, we're doing something to improve our aviation" type of thing. I bet there had been far far worse things than this and no action has been taken by the DGCA.

Had there been an emergency, the trainee commander would not have been able to handle it," said the source.
At least some of them are honest about themselves

Kind of says it all after all the farcical nonsense coming out of India
Agree 100%
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 16:05
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The SpiceJet violation case came under DGCA lens after then DGCA boss Nasim Zaidi received an anonymous mail in July last year.
So one of these spineless bastards dobbed him in after he passed his command course. I'm not going to condone having a trainee in one seat and an unlicenced person in another but the time to suggest that this shouldn't happen is before the training captain leaves his seat, not when his son is sitting in it. And I hope this remark, who ever wrote it, was just for Sun readers and/or effect:

Had there been an emergency, the trainee commander would not have been able to handle it.
I would expect ANY trainee captain to be able to handle ANY emergency. His method of handling it might not be the most efficient in company terms, which is they are being trained. But if you are ready for the left hand seat should already be a highly proficient operator.

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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 16:11
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which co-incidentally doesnt lay much faith on their own cpl standards !

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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 19:39
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Question

Don't understand why this is such a big deal. Do pilots not use the toilet when in the cruise.
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Old 22nd Dec 2010, 21:29
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Actually seems to me like a vague maneuver to redeem the poor image Indian Civil Aviation has been spreading 'round the world recently. Like "We can take appropriate action... when we want to".
I guess we will see a few bad surprises springing from those companies again anyway. It's not in one night you overcome bad habits.
I don't know if grounding the instructor would have been an appropriate action, since his fault appears to me to be about instruction, not actually flying a liner, but I reckon making a few examples might not hurt either.
Also hanging pirates never stopped piracy (not to be taken literally please).
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 04:48
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Human nature is funny.When under attack for perceived corruption/negligence,they go completely over the top trying to prove the opposite.And they chose all the wrong instances to make their point.
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 05:30
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And the FO who gave up his/her seat?

The FA? (If he/she witnessed this as well?)

Loses his TRI status for what, 5 years? What a joke. The S.O.B. should lose his damn LICENSE. Yeah, we all make mistakes but doing so KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS is more than stupid.
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 06:03
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Perhaps not the best judgement exercised by the Instructor Pilot.

But equally poor judgement by the rat bastard who turned in the Instructor Pilot without discussion. Oh well, I'm sure with the good old boy network in India, I would not be surprised to see rat managed out of the cockpit.

I'm not condoning the actions of the Instructor Pilot in quesitons, But at the end of the day can one really compare the crash of the Russian Airbus which was caused by a non trained pilot versus having a qualified CPL, although not in the Boeing, in the seat? You can bet that the future captain in training kept a good eye on the future Boeing Puppy who was keeping Papa's seat warm to ensure that he did not touch anything.

Come on now... how many of you have gone to the biffy an return to the cockpit to find the cabin crew member occupying your seat? Any pilot who remained in the cockpit get turned in for that?
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 07:48
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And the FO who gave up his/her seat?
You didn't read the post very well TopTup. Read it again.
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 07:56
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Originally Posted by Captjns
Come on now... how many of you have gone to the biffy an return to the cockpit to find the cabin crew member occupying your seat? Any pilot who remained in the cockpit get turned in for that?
- again, like TopTup, you need to re-read the first post. In your example there is still a qualified pilot in his or her seat.
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 11:08
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As stated by BOAC

- again, like TopTup, you need to re-read the first post. In your example there is still a qualified pilot in his or her seat.
Negative. The term "future captain" does not infer that the future skippers in training being signed off, or relesaed to the line... do you?
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 11:35
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Captjns, The person left in the seat had either an Indian CPL or ALTP, neither one inspire confidence in me.

As everyone is aware they are obtained in India by "logbook flying"

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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 12:43
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captjns- I do not really understand your post.

The OP has no qualified pilot in his/her seat.

Your trip to the 'biffy' leaves one qualified pilot in his/her seat.

Spot the difference?
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 12:49
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Whoa, not quite sure I understand - the Commander allowed an unqualified...


...Oh, India, I see...
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Old 23rd Dec 2010, 13:28
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Test pilot quit the job

Soon after the aviation regulator clipped a senior Spicejet Airline pilot’s authority to test junior pilots on charges of a safety violation in November, he quit the job, said a spokesperson from the airline. The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) had stopped spicejet’s general manager of training, from conducting tests on junior pilots.
He was found guilty of operating three flights in which his son, , a fresh passout from a flying school, flew as the co-pilot without authorisation.

The violation took place during the operation of three flights in May__Delhi-Hyderabad, Delhi-Coimbatore and a Coimbatore-Delhi flight. According to the DGCA’s rule, a trainer pilot cannot hand over cockpit controls to a trainee pilot.

The airline spokesperson confirmed that Captain Singh resigned from service in November soon after he was grounded.

His son continues to work with the airline because the probe gave him a clean chit.

The regulator had issued a stringent circular last month that stated that training captains could be grounded for five years if found compromising safety norms in favouring junior pilots.

The circular was issued because such cases of favourtism had become common.
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Old 24th Dec 2010, 09:04
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This is hardly a stand taken by the DGCA. There are internal forces within Spice which ensured that Capt Singh was removed from his post and replaced with a more 'friendly' person. Anyone with inside info can determine who he has been replaced with and the motivation to have him supplanted.
For the record I have been trained by him and upgraded during his tenure as GM and I have not come across a more practical and no nonsense airman in my short career so far. In a country burdened with archaic laws and slavish adherence to rote SOP's, his attitude and outlook to training was a breath of fresh air and inspired confidence in all trainees who came across him.

Notwithstading this particular incident, DGCA is still a corrupt, incompetent and indifferent organisation in whose hands millions of lives are put in danger. Don't be fooled by this 'action'.
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