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Fake pilots. This Helps To Explain A Lot Of Things...

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Fake pilots. This Helps To Explain A Lot Of Things...

Old 12th Jan 2011, 02:10
  #41 (permalink)  
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Fake pilots one thing, fake instructors/caa officials another thing, how do these guys get past the licencing authorities-trust me 4 hours in a sim and you have a pretty good idea of what you are dealing with, fake or not,maybe there are a few gaps/loopholes higher up that need to be looked at!
Maybe some of these guys, like Thomas Salme who flew for 13 years without a problem, are actually pretty good at the art of flying. As an SLF, if a guy has 13 years of flying experience behind him as a PIC, statistics impell me to say that I'll risk a trip with him rather than with some 200 hour 22 year old wonder graduated from some US airline.

Let me rephrase it this way: You need a valve replacement. On my left, some fake surgeon who has operated for 13 years with no medical degree and has a good success record as a consultant surgeon. On my right some brilliant med student just a year out of internship. Which will you prefer?

By the way, I have a PhD in my own discipline - I know exactly what a formal qualification is worth.
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Old 12th Jan 2011, 19:58
  #42 (permalink)  
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Don't make assumptions about Thomas Salme's flying ability. Talk to any of the people he flew with and unless they are slightly unstable, they will have noticed that there was something odd about him. In fact I had several F/O's question me about his competancy.

The simple fact is, if you look like a pilot, act like a pilot you can get away with even mediocre ability to pass a check ride. There is a reluctance to fail a Captain unless he makes a major error or sequence of errors. I'm not saying Captains never fail, but there is more reluctance to fail them.

Thomas Salme was a danger to everyone who flew in his aircraft...full stop. It is irrelevant that he passed checks for 13 years, the man didn't have a licence and should not be praised for his actions.

Frankly, I hope he rots.
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Old 13th Jan 2011, 02:42
  #43 (permalink)  
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Another way of looking at this: how do all the genuine, hard- working aspirant pilots feel about con- artists who forge, fake and b- s their way to airliner front seats? A lifetime of effort and let's not forget a vast financial outlay to fulfill those childhood dreams all trumped by an ability to bluff your way through the system. Some time ago, a faked- hours ace got quite a long way in a well known uk long haul airline. Eventually found out and sacked by the chief pilot. Informed lucky not to be prosecuted with automatic jail sentence as per aforementioned cp's wishes. Hi- profile chairman did not wish the probable negative publicity. Some years later after a period of re- invention a reappearance in another well known uk leisure airline and becomes a TRE - unbelievable. Should not have been allowed to work again as an airline pilot and should have been prosecuted,

Unbelievable to think that lying and cheating can take you so far. The medical profession is not immune either.
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Old 14th Jan 2011, 01:43
  #44 (permalink)  
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Test the fakes?

It would be interesting if somebody actually tested the fakes, to see whether they actually acquired the requisite flying ability on the job.

If I understand rightly a "real" pilot who changes types eg. moves from Boeing to Airbus would get retraining AND testing at company's expense - and it is possible that the fake would at that point get trained and tested too, making his new qualification quite genuine?

BTW, many high-stress jobs do not have formal training procedures. POTUS comes to mind
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Old 17th Jan 2011, 01:07
  #45 (permalink)  
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Do not compare oranges with aligators
I know of plenty of pilots who trained in Spain who didn't test or fly the approved syllabus and still got their licences.

Same can be said for Italy where money can buy you a licence.

Anyone who says otherwise is being naive.
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 21:06
  #46 (permalink)  
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Guys ,

What about 60 specialist doctor in a major hospital in the middle east with fake doctorates ... Is that safe too ? At least there are 2 FD in the same time...
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 21:18
  #47 (permalink)  
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this is unreal and very disturbing indeed, the command of the english is also a big issue these frauds need locking away and the only aircraft they ever touch again is a airfix model
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Old 20th Jan 2011, 01:03
  #48 (permalink)  
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''And I've also lost track of the Ex Royal Air Force officer (Air Traffic) who faked his logbook hours until found out by Airtours (Now Thomas Cook). At least he was prosecuted by the UK CAA...! Which served as a lesson to others. He was made to do all his training again and had to delete all the GR1 and Hawk hours which he never flew. Last heard of ....?''

.......flying for Globespan.

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Cheating pilotís new career is flying high
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Old 24th Jan 2011, 03:46
  #49 (permalink)  
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Not too difficult to fake being an airline pilot these days if you have some flight training covering the rudimentaries of airline flying. With the advent of flight sim and VR software plus home based sim hardware like flight controls connected to the computer, armchair pilots can actually go quite far in mimicking actual airline operations. They will only be found out as fakes when met with actual non normal situations in actual flights or if someone bother to do extensive background checks.

On normal flight operations there will certainly be little to tell them apart from actual pilots if they are also good actors, and many got away easily. The danger is that if the do get involve in a real fatal accident, and if the insurers do find out they are fakes then what are the passengers' and other crews rights with regards to insurance claims?
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Old 24th Jan 2011, 16:11
  #50 (permalink)  
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So, why not just test once a year?

So why not just have *every* pilot do a sim check with some emergencies once a year, if he passes and has a certain number of verifiable *airline* hours that year in the US or Europe, write him an "official" license and forget about what came before.

I mean, if a pilot comes out of a third-world environment or wherever, is his logbook and license really that much more believable than a test?

Yes, in an ideal world, good teaching would provide pilots with solid flying skills which would be certified by the documents. But the world out there is less than ideal. And the so-called "management pilots" may be an issue too. Would any of you want to be operated on by a "management surgeon" who needs one operation every two months to keep current?

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Old 24th Jan 2011, 17:54
  #51 (permalink)  
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So why not just have *every* pilot do a sim check with some emergencies once a year
Surprise surprise!
All airline training consist of just that, and not just once but numerous times per year. In fact the sim rides are packed with emergencies, Its the reason you have to take them.

In other words: Wether you have a fake licence or not, if you pass the course and all the checks, you are qualified. Albeit not legally.

Don't worrie, My licence is genuine
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Old 25th Jan 2011, 00:03
  #52 (permalink)  
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I mean, if a pilot comes out of a third-world environment or wherever, is his logbook and license really that much more believable than a test?
Er, a lot of fakers come from 1st world countries trying their luck in 3rd world countries!
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