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Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash

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Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash

Old 17th Nov 2010, 08:28
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Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash

Sleepy pilot caused Indian passenger plane crash - Yahoo! News

NEW DELHI (AFP) A sleepy pilot who approached the runway at the wrong angle and ignored warning signs was to blame for a passenger plane crash in southern India in May that claimed 158 lives, reports said Wednesday.
A Court of Inquiry probe concluded the Air India pilot Zlatko Glusica, from Serbia, was asleep for much of the three-hour flight and was "disorientated" when the plane started to descend, the Hindustan Times reported.
The low-cost Air India Express plane flying from Dubai to the city of Mangalore overshot the runway, plunged into a gorge and burst into flames. Eight people survived the inferno.
The official crash report, which has not been released publicly, was submitted to the civil aviation ministry on Tuesday.
Voice recordings picked up the co-pilot saying: "We don't have runway left," seconds before the disaster.
Most of the dead were migrant workers returning from the Gulf where many Indians from southern states find low-paid employment as construction workers or domestic staff in cities such as Dubai.
The six-member court was set up to investigate the cause of India's first major air crash since 2000 and its worst aviation disaster since 1996, when two jets collided in mid-air over New Delhi, killing nearly 350 people.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 08:39
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I haven't read the full report.

The question I ask is, what was the f/o doing in the time interval before a few seconds before the crash? Was he an experienced pilot, who may have had the assertiveness intervene before tragedy stuck? Was he/she a 200 hr robot and watched the whole thing in the making? Please feel free to flame me if i am incorrect but it was a 2 crew operation was it not?

When I am a non handling pilot I would take over the controls if I thought we were going to crash.

Not trying to point fingers as we are all fallible, each and every one of us. Yes I am aware the pilot in command must take the responsibility and the buck stops with him/her.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 08:48
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First Officer had 3650hrs TT and 3350hrs on Type. Clearly not inexperienced. Was with Jet Airways before he joined Air India Express.

I would still wait for the CVR disclosure (by NTSB) before arriving at any conclusion, however, the investigation team which has completed the investigation has already called out several SOP failures on the Captain (e.g. ignoring the airspeed warning, GPWS, etc.), it appears that the F/O did call out for a Go-Around thrice (!!!!).
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 08:51
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The First Officer was experienced. He had appx. 3700 hours and was also an ATPL holder. He was himself due for command shortly.

With due respect to the departed, if the First Officer had been more assertive the accident could have been averted.

It also looks like a total failure of CRM. A go around call by any pilot should be respected by the other pilot.

Let us hope lessons are learnt from this accident, and corrective steps are taken.

RIP.............
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 08:54
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Ok I stand corrected.

What a great shame with that amount of time on the aircraft etc., he didn't feel the need to intervene physically.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 09:00
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Yogyakarta and many others ring a bell?

Sounds like a reprint of those would save some time and money investigating this! (said with tongue in cheek but you know what I am thinking)
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 09:19
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Originally Posted by doubleu-anker
Ok I stand corrected.

What a great shame with that amount of time on the aircraft etc., he didn't feel the need to intervene physically.
Maye he did, but not early enough. It was suggested earlier in the thread that they did try and take off agina, but clipped the ILS antenna which brought them down.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 09:31
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In the previous thread on this crash several posters commented on the fatigue factor, especially in the light of the nature on the sectors this crew had flown.

However, airlines around the world seem to think that duty times can be extended without cost despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 10:29
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Does this have anything to do with 'culture' or knowing ones place in the great scheme of things?

Would an Indian FO dare to tell the PIC (non Indian or not) that he was wrong?
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 10:35
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Not wishing to divert the topic completely away from this particular crash, but the comment has been made that the F/O, experienced or not, could have averted the crash with assertiveness. It has been said that this was a breakdown of CRM, and perhaps was a dig at the F/O. Consider the Air France A330 overrun in Toronto; the F/O was PF and the Captain kept crying "put it down, put it down" when he should have been crying "go around, go around", or executing it himself. There is fallability in both seats, bit only 1 carries the ultimate responsibility, PF or PNF.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 11:23
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"Sleepy Pilot"

No nothing to do with fatigue whatsoever. The Captain wasn't fit!! The DGCA are onto it though. They are now requiring all expats flying on a validation to sit the military medical, twice per year on top of their normal medical.

One should be fit enough to endure fatigue!!!

I am of the opinion incapacitation training covering these scenarios would be time and money better spent.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 12:36
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I already have 2 meds a year (60)

will I need a total of 4 meds per year....overkill, or what.

glf
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 14:40
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Whichever part of the world one goes to fly an airplane of that country......one is required to pass the local medical standards......however archaic and irrelevant some tests might be in modern day medicine and commercial aviation. This thing was long time coming and I for one feel it is correct. Not the standards....but that every person flying an Indian registered aircraft must be medically fit as per local regulations.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 14:46
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Fatigue is a red herring for sure.Pilot is hardly likely to be sleepy whilst trying to recover a hot/high approach..he'd be wide awake with high adrenalin levels.No,it was either a miscalculation(ie,the approach was unrecoverable regardless of pilot technique/proficiency) or poor technique(pilot not trained how to recover from a hot/high approach).VNAV fixation and automation reliance set the trap.Get home-itis also complicates the situation.You can be fast and low or slow and high but not fast and high,not close in anyway.At 10 miles,you can be 5000' and still meet SOP's @500 providing youre fully configured and no tailwind.Applicable to B737.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 15:02
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Beeps

Load of rubbish. I have held 5 different validations, over the years, recognising my ICAO licence and not once have I ever had to sit a medical, of the country issuing the validation certificate. The law examination yes, all 5 I have sat. That is fair and necessary.

Do some research before trying to defend, the indefensible.

Last edited by weido_salt; 17th Nov 2010 at 15:17.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 16:47
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He was recorded snoring for half the flight.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 17:21
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Ok i stand corrected ........i only spoke from my knowledge of work options available to me and all those countries required me to clear the local medicals. Nonetheless it is incorrect on your part to say i am "trying to defend the indefensible" cause if that is the requirement or amended requirement for expat pilots then there is nothing wrong in it. No one has held a gun to the heads and said "fly my plane"
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 17:30
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What did his roster look like leading up to the accident?
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 17:58
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Why the sudden coyness and / or outrage that somebody on a flight deck should be asleep ? Planned naps are quite common , and very beneficial to alertness after the nap . Why should somebody have to be so 'fit' that they can fly 2 nights in a row -very common , often unable to have long natural sleep before such flights , and why would a normal person not be wanting to sleep in the graveyard shift ( ie 2-5 am which a lot of operators in the Gulf and India force on their crews ?
We plan such naps , only after discussion about who os the most rested etc , and our Cabin crew are chiming every 20 minutes anyway . I personally feel a whole lot better after even a 10 min power-nap . I do not think that it is a good idea to sleep too long of course , and I am sure the deceased Captain did not sleep for 3 hours ?
I think that expecting an exhausted , sleep deprived pilolt to struggle along without a nap is asking for trouble . You try ringing crewing and saying 'I cannot fly tonight , my baby has colic ' more than once !
The whole aspect of night-flights and fatigue is ignored by all airline bosses . I am astounded to see one poster above saying that a medically-fit pilot would not need to sleep at all.
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Old 17th Nov 2010, 18:44
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Whilst we wait to learn the full circumstances of this accident it's disappointing to see all the blame heaped on the crew.

What system (regulatory and otherwise) allows this type of accident to occur?

If pilots are fatigued or selected/trained incorrectly, then who is responsible?
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