Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure
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forget
Fair Cop. The schedule depends on PW success in Court. If the suit gets tossed, the delay may be less, but there will be a delay. A schedule is like a spinning top, touch it even lightly, it becomes upset. Below the surface, there are contracts and deliveries that are vulnerable to a mud fight of any description. On this you will have to extend some "trust".
rgds;
bear
Fair Cop. The schedule depends on PW success in Court. If the suit gets tossed, the delay may be less, but there will be a delay. A schedule is like a spinning top, touch it even lightly, it becomes upset. Below the surface, there are contracts and deliveries that are vulnerable to a mud fight of any description. On this you will have to extend some "trust".
rgds;
bear
As for the ferry flight to get it back to France, I imaging Airbus would be best placed to manage how this is organised/covered.
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Delay
For the 787 at least and the Trent 1000, there's the test-bed incident which happened before the Qantas problem(s?) - the whole shebang must surely have a bearing on 787 testing, production and deliveries, not to mention any possible effects on A380 production ... I sincerely hope that RR have got a handle on this (these) questions. After all, there were also some questions about a certain fuel/oil heat-exchanger in the recent past, and what must be a "certain cloudiness" in RR's reputation ...
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Why only Qantas?
Forgive my (probably) crass ignorance and simple-mindedness, but if 4 Qantas engines (the bust one + three others if I heard the news correctly) are affected, and no SIA engines seem to be, doesn't this almost by definition imply a maintenance problem? Even if it turns out that the oil leaks are unrelated to the flying metal fragments ...
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QF74 and QF32
I know we have a different RR engine here (RB211), but QF74 experienced an uncontained engine failure just a few weeks ago (end of Aug 2010) out of KSFO.
Some pictures here, it is certainly an uncontained failure:
Pictures: Qantas 747 uncontained engine failure-31/08/2010-Washington DC-Flightglobal.com
Coincidence?
Why QF again?
Some pictures here, it is certainly an uncontained failure:
Pictures: Qantas 747 uncontained engine failure-31/08/2010-Washington DC-Flightglobal.com
Coincidence?
Why QF again?
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Ok, I'm not a pilot, just an ATC wannabe and enthusiast, but I'd say not an engine problem, but more likely a volcanic ash problem, seeing as 2 different types of a/c from the same firm had similar problems in the same location, either that, or the other possibility, which I'm not going to say in case it's been covered.
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Talk of scrapping this Airbus is surely premature. I cannot imagine that the designers had not taken into account the possibility of a wing skin penetration requiring repair at an outport. Unless there is severe structural damage, other repairs should be achievable, if somewhat time consuming.
A ferry flight could go over water almost all the way - Malacca Straits, South of Sri Lanka, Red Sea then along the Mediterranean to Toulouse. I am sure that the Airbus bosses will be burning the midnight oil to get that jet back to the factory, whatever it takes.
A ferry flight could go over water almost all the way - Malacca Straits, South of Sri Lanka, Red Sea then along the Mediterranean to Toulouse. I am sure that the Airbus bosses will be burning the midnight oil to get that jet back to the factory, whatever it takes.
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T900 - A380 - Oil leaks
LH and SQ inspections have found nothing wrong with their T900 engines.
QF instead found oil leaks in at least 3 engines (RR T900).
All 3 carriers have same engines on their A380, slightly different max thrust for QF as per article above.
The QF32 accident can therefore be only one of the following: either QF maintenance related or thrust/chip related (different micro chip on QF for higher thrust) which translates in a RR design-fault for this setting.
An uncontained engine failure, whatever the outcome, it is always a catastrophic incident for aviation, even if nobody is injured and the plane lands safely.
How can I convince myself that QF had two serious catastrophic uncontained engine failures in just a few weeks and this is just outside QF's control?
Why the other carriers, using same engines/same ac type, have not experienced the same type of serious uncontained engine failures as per last two QF incidents (for both the A380 and 747)?
Yes, I cannot blame QF of course, but the question I ask here is, if/when a RR design fault will be proven, the following: why this design fault is then affecting just this carrier but not the others?
QF instead found oil leaks in at least 3 engines (RR T900).
All 3 carriers have same engines on their A380, slightly different max thrust for QF as per article above.
The QF32 accident can therefore be only one of the following: either QF maintenance related or thrust/chip related (different micro chip on QF for higher thrust) which translates in a RR design-fault for this setting.
An uncontained engine failure, whatever the outcome, it is always a catastrophic incident for aviation, even if nobody is injured and the plane lands safely.
How can I convince myself that QF had two serious catastrophic uncontained engine failures in just a few weeks and this is just outside QF's control?
Why the other carriers, using same engines/same ac type, have not experienced the same type of serious uncontained engine failures as per last two QF incidents (for both the A380 and 747)?
Yes, I cannot blame QF of course, but the question I ask here is, if/when a RR design fault will be proven, the following: why this design fault is then affecting just this carrier but not the others?
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Just brief questions from an ancient...
. Does anybody have a useful pointer to (a) detailed picture(s) of the A380 wing structure?
. There was a mention of a pretty huge single-piece wing panel being 'involved'. Any accurate drawings showing where it is located?
. Was that panel chemically milled or numerically-mechanically milled (not relevant, just being curious about current technique)?
. Would Airbus already have written the relevant chapters of the SRM on how to repair this kind of "somewhat unusual" damage?
Dents and cracks are one thing. Shrapnel through the wing is another....
CJ
. Does anybody have a useful pointer to (a) detailed picture(s) of the A380 wing structure?
. There was a mention of a pretty huge single-piece wing panel being 'involved'. Any accurate drawings showing where it is located?
. Was that panel chemically milled or numerically-mechanically milled (not relevant, just being curious about current technique)?
. Would Airbus already have written the relevant chapters of the SRM on how to repair this kind of "somewhat unusual" damage?
Dents and cracks are one thing. Shrapnel through the wing is another....
CJ
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CJ
There was a youtube mentioned back some time ago- the process was CNC end-milled. I am concerned about the lower wing skin, I haven't seen any pictures of the entry wounds....
Edit, found the youtube:
YouTube - Airbus A380 - Wing Construction - HD
Edit, found the youtube:
YouTube - Airbus A380 - Wing Construction - HD
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Has anyone recognized the disc fragment that was found? Is it a compressor disc, turbine disc? High pressure, intermediate pressure? If blades were sheared off it looks really clean. Are there other discs in the engine that might be gears for power take-off such as a generator?
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Quote:
As for the ferry flight to get it back to France, I imaging Airbus would be best placed to manage how this is organised/covered.
As for the ferry flight to get it back to France, I imaging Airbus would be best placed to manage how this is organised/covered.
Its could always be sent by sea, of course. Or partially dismantled, there are many options.
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It would depend on the deal struck between the owners and the insurors. The insuror will want to do it the cheapest way, but the owners have intangibles that are at risk, intangibles that could end up costing the owner gobs of dough. If the insuror is convinced the Hull is a scrap, (perhaps by a Judge), they will pay up to the limit for a new a/c. RR and Q have an interest in making the outcome as invisible to the public as possible, to what extent depends on their credit line.
The considerations are the same whether agreed to at the outset, or as a result of litigation. The attorney's are drooling as we speak. Vultures can Fly too.
I'm sure it's as Joyce contends, a cracked oil line, nothing to see here, move along.
Briefly, imo, the engines were performing within strict guidelines, as a result of the upcharge via chip and augment to thrust. Any failure of the powerplant when Mx is observed, and operated as speced, falls on the manufacturer. It has been a bad two years for TRENT and RR. Perhaps no more naming engines after rivers.
bear
The considerations are the same whether agreed to at the outset, or as a result of litigation. The attorney's are drooling as we speak. Vultures can Fly too.
I'm sure it's as Joyce contends, a cracked oil line, nothing to see here, move along.
Briefly, imo, the engines were performing within strict guidelines, as a result of the upcharge via chip and augment to thrust. Any failure of the powerplant when Mx is observed, and operated as speced, falls on the manufacturer. It has been a bad two years for TRENT and RR. Perhaps no more naming engines after rivers.
bear
Not necessarily. The Qantas engine is modded to make more power than the SIA one.
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I think you'll find that on occasions ''Lufthansa Technik'' service their own, and QANTAS engines.
Also, other operators have their engines de-rated from the maximum available from R-R. QANTAS do not, and I quote, ''upcharge via chip and augment to thrust'', or ''The Qantas engine is modded to make more power than the SIA one.'' The engines are bought at the thrust rating required from the manufacturer, not tuned at a later date like some boy racer's hot hatch.
I thought this forum was for professionals, not 'best guessers'.
Also, other operators have their engines de-rated from the maximum available from R-R. QANTAS do not, and I quote, ''upcharge via chip and augment to thrust'', or ''The Qantas engine is modded to make more power than the SIA one.'' The engines are bought at the thrust rating required from the manufacturer, not tuned at a later date like some boy racer's hot hatch.
I thought this forum was for professionals, not 'best guessers'.
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Oils aint oils??
Question?
How often does the oil supply have to be topped up on these engines?
What would be the effect of some wally using the wrong or a station using a whole batch of contaminated oil ?
Sorry if the question is too dumb but I do investigations in ATC and like looking for dumb/human errors.
How often does the oil supply have to be topped up on these engines?
What would be the effect of some wally using the wrong or a station using a whole batch of contaminated oil ?
Sorry if the question is too dumb but I do investigations in ATC and like looking for dumb/human errors.