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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Reports say the flight lasted 1h30 (other reports say 2h), burning fuel to allow a safe landing.
My ATP ground course reads "Air transport aircraft that have a Maximum Landing Mass (MLM) significantly lower than the Maximum Take Off Mass (MTOM) must have a fuel jettisoning system. The system must be capable of jettisoning enough fuel within 15 minutes to allow the aircraft to land at MLM following a take-off at MTOM. "
Why did they stay airborne such a long time?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:22
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Last edited by Machaca; 4th Nov 2010 at 09:44.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:27
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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<If they had been damaged then the engine would continue to run no matter what happens in the flight deck as the engine has its own dedicated generator to power the FADEC and the LP fuel valve would remain open.>

I can understand as fail safe,that loss of data feed from the cockpit would leave No1 Engine running but there must be the ability to close all fuel valves or No1 Engine would just keep running until the tanks where dry
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:28
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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one of the pictures from Reuters.com looks a mighty lot like a fan blade, definately not the way Rolls Royce would want an engine to fail. Couldn't the damage to the wing be like this because slats where extended, so the front part of the wing was missed. There are usually hydraulic lines installed at the rear part of the slats (for obvious reasons), damage to the wing looks to be coinciding with the position of these lines, at least on aircraft types i have flown...

My two cents.

Well done to the fellow pilots who landed safely!
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:28
  #45 (permalink)  
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My ATP ground course reads "Air transport aircraft that have a Maximum Landing Mass (MLM) significantly lower than the Maximum Take Off Mass (MTOM) must have a fuel jettisoning system. The system must be capable of jettisoning enough fuel within 15 minutes to allow the aircraft to land at MLM following a take-off at MTOM. "
Why did they stay airborne such a long time?
Hmmm 1 post? Which newspaper do you work for?
I find that a bit difficult to believe given that the 744 has a MTOW (MTOM? huh?) of about 394t and a MLW of 300 - 285 t and they dump fuel at 2 t a minute. It can take up to an hour to dump to MLW in some cases.
Perhaps you'd better look somewhere else for your scoop.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:50
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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and what sort of considerations will apply to grounding all airlines A380 as there is only one engine type
There are two, the Trent 900 and the Engine Alliance GP7000; Singapore fly the Trents as well apparently.

It would appear that this aircraft went for a C check in September.

CHRISBA777ER | Member profile | Airliners.net
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:52
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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I would guess they were dousing the number 1 engine to remove all heat.........any heat isnt welcome with a hole in the wing..

This is a disastrous incident, and certainly isn't 'minor'. Grounding the fleet is totally justified given the still relatively low flying hours.

Watch this space.....the FAA/Boeing mafia will ban it from US airspace before the end of the week!!!!
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:53
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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I am supposed to be flying SIA A380 next month. Before updating my will, can anyone give the stats on uncontained engine failures for non-design reasons ( i.e. birds bigger than test chicken).

........ and what sort of considerations will apply to grounding all airlines A380 as there is only one engine type
Last time I checked, there are two.

You may want to consider Emirates instead of updating your will. They are not into Rolls-Royces (aircraft engines that is, not cars).
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:56
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of nonsense is written about uncontained engine failures. Anything that comes loose will be blown out the back of the engine so is uncontained in that limited sense. The containment design problem refers to loss of a fan blade. In that event the fan case is designed to contain the blade so that it does not fly sideways and penetrate the cabin for example. But such a failure produces a lot of debris that will escape to the environment through the back of the engine.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 09:57
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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'unable to shut down No.1 engine'
The first photo in reply 27 shows the Fire Dept trying to shut down #1 eng by drowning it, you can see at the aft end the spray coming out of a running eng.
When the control signal is lost from the flight deck the eng will continue to run as stated in a previous post at what ever its last commanded setting was from the flight deck.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:01
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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No containment

It appear a serious uncontainment, causes to be identified. Good job pilots, for the immediate shutdown. That damages are so limited is a real miracle, so landing without problems. Pax safe. Problems on ground, but no injuried at the moment.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:03
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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So whats your point first floor? This was a major, uncontained engine failure by the looks of it. Large parts of the engine have penetrated the cowls, carried on and passed through the entire wing structure. It is a bit more than a simple shut down. And as for the previous post that Qantas have never crashed, hmmm, any golfers in the audience?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:06
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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When the control signal is lost from the flight deck the eng will continue to run as stated in a previous post at what ever its last commanded setting was from the flight deck.
I can see arguments both for and against that in-built logic. Perhaps a local RF signal should be sent to the engine as a backup control.

FN
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:11
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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If the rumour about them being unable to shut down the No1 is correct, I suspect damage to the wiring running through the wing?

As far as the confusion regarding contained or un-contained, the huge hole on the most critical surface would suggest it was UN-contained.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:12
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Slats retracted.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:22
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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This is the official statement from Changi Airport:
An A380 Qantas flight, QF 32, bound for Sydney, Australia, departed Singapore Changi Airport at 0956 hours today. For technical reasons, the aircraft turned back to Changi and landed safely at 1146 hours.

Changi Airport Group's Airport Emergency Service (AES) responded with six fire vehicles, in accordance with standard operating procedure for such incidents. In response to the pilot's request, checks were conducted on the aircraft by AES. Once the checks were completed, passengers and crew began disembarking from the aircraft at Runway 2. Buses were arranged to ferry them to the airport terminal. Disembarkation of all 469 passengers and crew on board was completed by 1340 hours.

Runway 2, which has remained closed since the landing, will reopen later today. Flights have continued to take off and land at Runway 1 and operations at Changi have, otherwise, not been affected.


Assuming the explosion occurred 10-15mins into the flight, it took about an hour and a half to defuel and prep for landing. Must have been scary for the pax for such a long time.

Then, it took almost 2 hours (!?) to get everyone off the plane. Note they did not launch the emergency slides.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone has a clue as to how long after the aircraft came to a stop the pictures of the fire brigade hosing down the no 1 engine was taken?

If it was immediately after two things come to mind:

1. Slats look retracted. Did they land flaps up due to the damage to the wing/slats?

2. Looks kind of odd having a set of passenger stairs being pulled up while the brigade is still spraying. What if the situation had taken a turn for the worse and they would have had to evacuate. That door would not have opened in that case? (Of course, if it was after 30 minutes or so on the ground its a different story)
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:25
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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From all accounts a normal landing so no affect on handling through hydraulic damage?

I have ultimate respect for Qantas folk, their aircraft have let them down of late but their airmanship remains esteemed.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:29
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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This appears to be a good job by the crew, with what look like multiple failures to deal with. One engine lost, another apparently not responding properly, hydraulic problems etc. Preparing the aircraft, and of course the passengers for an emergency landing, takes a much longer time than the non expert would think. If the aircraft is not falling out of the sky you take your time and get properly prepared, as the end result here suggests this crew did. Dumping fuel is only one part of the preparation. Rumour suggests that there were several captains on board and a portion of good luck. But then as they say the more you practice the luckier you get.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 10:29
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Just an observation from the first photo in post # 43.

There is significant scorching to the white part of the engine casing indicating heat/flames in the airflow from the front half of the engine.

This has to be seen in light of the fact that the combustion chambers are located well aft of the burn/scorch marks.

In the picture the combustion area is located approx at where the second from left man is standing or at the point on the engine where the forward part of the white on red Qantas logo appears.
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