Capt Burkill to re-join BA
'Environmental Envelope'
What are you talking about ?
The flight in question was never operated outside of any limits, although I still do not understand your statement.
The fuel temperature was a concern, but, once again this remained within limits.
Captain Burkill and his crew were and are entirely without blame and deserve a lot more credit for their tremendous, life saving performance.
What are you talking about ?
The flight in question was never operated outside of any limits, although I still do not understand your statement.
The fuel temperature was a concern, but, once again this remained within limits.
Captain Burkill and his crew were and are entirely without blame and deserve a lot more credit for their tremendous, life saving performance.
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There are times when mankind fills you with you joy, and the there are time when mankind just make you want to despair. Why the f---- can't the uninformed mob just keep their mouths shut?
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Pitch Up Authority, speculating in this particular thread is insensitive.
I am sure this was not your intent though, here is a better place for discussing such things like challenging the conclusions of the report.
I am sure this was not your intent though, here is a better place for discussing such things like challenging the conclusions of the report.
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There are times when mankind fills you with you joy, and the there are time when mankind just make you want to despair. Why the f---- can't the uninformed mob just keep their mouths shut?
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Many congratulations to Capt Burkill for regaining his old position at BA. No doubt it was a very distressful period for both him and his family which they can now hopefully put behind them and I wish them well. Also, well done to BA for doing the right thing in this instance.
I hope both parties have learnt some lessons from this episode. I know some here are blaming BA for not nipping the whispering campaign in the bud. They certainly can't be blamed for allowing Peter to take VR as that was his prerogative, even if ill advised - what counsel was given to him by BALPA?
Did BALPA make strong protestations at the time to BA regarding stemming these false rumours? If not, why not? I can't help but think this issue got caught up in both union and management politics, but could BALPA have pushed the issue harder?
With regards to the other airlines not recruiting Capt Burkill I agree that it was unfair, but understandable. The public's perception of an airlines safety is paramount and a risk/reward calculation was made. If another incident ever happened (however unlikely) there would be a lot of uncomfortable questions raised. Nobody wanted to stick their neck out, so this should serve as a warning for anybody stuck with a similar curse.
I hope both parties have learnt some lessons from this episode. I know some here are blaming BA for not nipping the whispering campaign in the bud. They certainly can't be blamed for allowing Peter to take VR as that was his prerogative, even if ill advised - what counsel was given to him by BALPA?
Did BALPA make strong protestations at the time to BA regarding stemming these false rumours? If not, why not? I can't help but think this issue got caught up in both union and management politics, but could BALPA have pushed the issue harder?
With regards to the other airlines not recruiting Capt Burkill I agree that it was unfair, but understandable. The public's perception of an airlines safety is paramount and a risk/reward calculation was made. If another incident ever happened (however unlikely) there would be a lot of uncomfortable questions raised. Nobody wanted to stick their neck out, so this should serve as a warning for anybody stuck with a similar curse.
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A great result, if somewhat overdue. The bent metal can be replaced, unlike the many precious souls that Captain Burkill and his crew saved that day.
Bravo Zulu!
Bravo Zulu!
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Congrats to Peter & his familiy. Your book was an eyeopener for me.
Excuse me, but that is 
. He was either handling the situation right (which he did IMO) or he´d been found guilty of operating the airplane outside envelopes, limits, whatever. He was not. So he is innocent and by doing the right thing at the right time he had saved the lifes of all on board and probably a few people on the ground. That was his job and he did exactly that. (and his crew)
Not hiring a pilot that on one side sticks to SOPs as long as possible and then in a split second decision doing the right thing 'outside the training envelope' is stupid.Such an example of airmanship isprobably the best pilot you can get.
I´ve asked myself many times if I could be as cool, calm and composed in the same situation he or Capt.Sullenberger was in.
Thats exactly what is wrong with us today, most folks, especially in management levels, not having a backbone any more.
With one thing you are right, its a warning.
With regards to the other airlines not recruiting Capt Burkill I agree that it was unfair, but understandable. The public's perception of an airlines safety is paramount and a risk/reward calculation was made. If another incident ever happened (however unlikely) there would be a lot of uncomfortable questions raised.
. He was either handling the situation right (which he did IMO) or he´d been found guilty of operating the airplane outside envelopes, limits, whatever. He was not. So he is innocent and by doing the right thing at the right time he had saved the lifes of all on board and probably a few people on the ground. That was his job and he did exactly that. (and his crew)Not hiring a pilot that on one side sticks to SOPs as long as possible and then in a split second decision doing the right thing 'outside the training envelope' is stupid.Such an example of airmanship isprobably the best pilot you can get.
I´ve asked myself many times if I could be as cool, calm and composed in the same situation he or Capt.Sullenberger was in.
Nobody wanted to stick their neck out, so this should serve as a warning for anybody stuck with a similar curse.
With one thing you are right, its a warning.
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Pitch up authority
It is totally incorrect to say the aircraft may have operated outside the operating envelope. You clearly do not have any understanding of Boeing 777 limitations and your comment infers that the crew may have done something wrong which is certainly not the case.
Unlike some other aircraft the 777 does not have a minimum operating outside air temperature limitation. The only limiting factor is the fuel must not get colder than 3 degrees above fuel freeze temperature of -47C, ie -44 C. In the case of the BA38 the fuel temperature never got below -35 degrees
Unlike the 747 wing the 777 wing is such that cold fuel temperature is rarely a problem even on winter flights over Siberia. So although 747s on the same routing that day had to descend to stay within air temperature and fuel temperature limitations the 777 did not need to. Additionally even at its higher flight level the fuel temperature of MMM would have been warmer than that of 747s which had had to descend to lower flight levels due temperature. The 777 RR engines have since been modified, the limitations on fuel temperature have not.
Welcome back to BA Pete. It's bad enough having idiots in the BA cabin crew training fraternity spreading untrue rumours about you let alone people like Pitch Up Authority casting aspersions on what is supposed to be a thread about welcoming you back.
It is totally incorrect to say the aircraft may have operated outside the operating envelope. You clearly do not have any understanding of Boeing 777 limitations and your comment infers that the crew may have done something wrong which is certainly not the case.
Unlike some other aircraft the 777 does not have a minimum operating outside air temperature limitation. The only limiting factor is the fuel must not get colder than 3 degrees above fuel freeze temperature of -47C, ie -44 C. In the case of the BA38 the fuel temperature never got below -35 degrees
Unlike the 747 wing the 777 wing is such that cold fuel temperature is rarely a problem even on winter flights over Siberia. So although 747s on the same routing that day had to descend to stay within air temperature and fuel temperature limitations the 777 did not need to. Additionally even at its higher flight level the fuel temperature of MMM would have been warmer than that of 747s which had had to descend to lower flight levels due temperature. The 777 RR engines have since been modified, the limitations on fuel temperature have not.
Welcome back to BA Pete. It's bad enough having idiots in the BA cabin crew training fraternity spreading untrue rumours about you let alone people like Pitch Up Authority casting aspersions on what is supposed to be a thread about welcoming you back.
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Rare Thread
It is a rare thread that goes up to 7 pages in length in just 3 days. And even rarer when the subject of the thread is a positive item.
I landed on the parallel runway just shortly after BA038 made its splashdown and have followed this topic with considerable interest.
Making a successful splashdown and now having Capt Burkill back at BA makes it one of the relatively few crash stories with more than one happy ending.
I landed on the parallel runway just shortly after BA038 made its splashdown and have followed this topic with considerable interest.
Making a successful splashdown and now having Capt Burkill back at BA makes it one of the relatively few crash stories with more than one happy ending.
common sense prevails...
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Well done Pete, Balpa and BA - it was great to hear this good news ..
Good to see there is still some humanity and thoughfulness around.
Someone in management actually understanding what the job and the people who do it are about ?
Good to see there is still some humanity and thoughfulness around.
Someone in management actually understanding what the job and the people who do it are about ?
Cool Mod
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Very true.
For those with a pocket full of stones you can find a pond, greenhouse or someone you dislike to throw them at - just stop lobbing them on this thread. Those who have been less than just plain nice have gone. As a matter of fact I cannot think of ONE reason why it should be impossible not to be nice.
PPRuNe is delighted to welcome PB back again - FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS.
For those with a pocket full of stones you can find a pond, greenhouse or someone you dislike to throw them at - just stop lobbing them on this thread. Those who have been less than just plain nice have gone. As a matter of fact I cannot think of ONE reason why it should be impossible not to be nice.
PPRuNe is delighted to welcome PB back again - FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS.
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Capt Peter Burkill
Well finally justice has prevailed, why BA adopted the attitude they did towards Capt Burkill beggars belief, to put he and his family through such an ordeal is cruel, I wonder how the people responsible for this would like to endure being treated this way. I say good luck to Capt Burkill and his family. What a ordeal!!!!.
