UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai
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Originally Posted by svarin
The unfortunate fellows who had to face one of the most dangerous situation ever in a civilian airplane only needed a few cheap things, and not billion-bucks drones :
- a way to fly the aircraft with heavy smoke in the cockpit : EVAS
- quick, accurate and reliable information about the fire
It seems maintenance had received ACARS with info on the fire location, and I for one am convinced this info was not available to the pilots.
- a way to fly the aircraft with heavy smoke in the cockpit : EVAS
- quick, accurate and reliable information about the fire
It seems maintenance had received ACARS with info on the fire location, and I for one am convinced this info was not available to the pilots.
- the best available cargo fire extinguishing system on the market, which might be the previsouly discussed FedEx developed system
If the aircraft automatics are able to detect a cargo fire, then there must also be a way to fight this fire as soon as possible, otherwise any detection system is as good as useless.
Any fire detected and not fighted but only the results of the fire like smoke being removed is a lost chance to survive this fire.
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UPS 9601 a 747-400 just landed in DXB. This airplane will fly the two deceased
UPS pilots back to Louisville shortly.
FlightAware > United Parcel Service #9601 > 20-Sep-2010 > KSDF-OMDB
UPS pilots back to Louisville shortly.
FlightAware > United Parcel Service #9601 > 20-Sep-2010 > KSDF-OMDB
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@Svarin
" Why is this thread degenerating into considerations on fully automated flight ?"
It is certainly not "degenerating" in that way, why do you consider it so?
"Why do people who are not pilots at all, and likely unable to ever become one, dream of aircraft that fly themselves ?"
I don't know, why don't you ask them? But I would guess that they see the potential, the reality and as humans will, they want to exploit the technology.
The smoke screen may well be a useful and warranted device for this particular emergency, what is wrong with considering more wide ranging help?
PS, it isn't a dream anymore.
" Why is this thread degenerating into considerations on fully automated flight ?"
It is certainly not "degenerating" in that way, why do you consider it so?
"Why do people who are not pilots at all, and likely unable to ever become one, dream of aircraft that fly themselves ?"
I don't know, why don't you ask them? But I would guess that they see the potential, the reality and as humans will, they want to exploit the technology.
The smoke screen may well be a useful and warranted device for this particular emergency, what is wrong with considering more wide ranging help?
PS, it isn't a dream anymore.
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@TheWanderer
"Reliability or functionality of UAV is competely irrelevant, if one is unable to program or reprogram it."
Well that depends on the nature of the program I suppose. Anyway, on the types I operate, it would be much more convenient to don the blindfold and then trip over the datalink power supply cable. On loss of comms, home it comes. Of course we can make it do other tricks, and indeed it doesn't need the datalink at all anyway. Perhaps after having tripped over and still with blindfold, I could use my cellphone to call a friend, the datalink is networked via cellnet and satellite, so any friend anywhere in the world with the ground-station software will do. Then again, we are working to develop voice command, "I think you said, Return to Home, is that correct?"
"Reliability or functionality of UAV is competely irrelevant, if one is unable to program or reprogram it."
Well that depends on the nature of the program I suppose. Anyway, on the types I operate, it would be much more convenient to don the blindfold and then trip over the datalink power supply cable. On loss of comms, home it comes. Of course we can make it do other tricks, and indeed it doesn't need the datalink at all anyway. Perhaps after having tripped over and still with blindfold, I could use my cellphone to call a friend, the datalink is networked via cellnet and satellite, so any friend anywhere in the world with the ground-station software will do. Then again, we are working to develop voice command, "I think you said, Return to Home, is that correct?"
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@ernestkgann
Non-current commercially trained, recreational pilot and professional research engineer. I am also interested in social dynamics of knowledge hierarchy. My professional and social network spans leading scientific PhD types, big aero r&d, airline and military pilots through to sport, recreational and experimental.
Non-current commercially trained, recreational pilot and professional research engineer. I am also interested in social dynamics of knowledge hierarchy. My professional and social network spans leading scientific PhD types, big aero r&d, airline and military pilots through to sport, recreational and experimental.
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Apologies for the thread drift. A casual observation would suggest you're too smart to be a professional pilot with those interests! Does a UAV operator regard themselves as a pilot and with that all the inherent considerations that go with operating machinery outside the boundaries of 'normal' human physiological circumstances. I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.
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The esteemed owners of this site may have to make an appropriate venue on these boards for UAV people. You will find that part of the psychology of pilots is the actual flying, remove that and there isn't much desire in that group to participate.
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Ah, well there are plenty of UAV sites. I don't want to talk about UAVs here. The point of interest is to look at how Autopilot technology can be used.
As I said earlier, it need not be seen as usurping the pilot's role.
As I said earlier, it need not be seen as usurping the pilot's role.
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I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.
The chicken's involved.
The pig's committed.....
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Fair enough. There is a lot of discussion at the moment that centres around automations role in reducing piloting ability and particularly manual flying wrt the ability to recover from inappropriate automation use and the the loss of knowledge, manual flying ability and experience. LCCs use automation in modern aircraft to employ lower experienced pilots. No doubt the advent of remotely piloted aircraft fits in there somewhere and as a group we are nearing the cross roads of the benefits of automation versus human/manual flying.
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Only as written. My agenda is to discuss safety, effectiveness and general enhancement of systems using contemporary technology.
I would wonder why the risk of hitting a UAV is so significant. If it is a genuine risk (not a psychological artifact) then there may be a systemic or other factor to be addressed. For example (and this clearly applies to manned AC) it is well known that modern precision navigation systems can cause increased collision risks due to that very precision. Would you blame the technology?
I would wonder why the risk of hitting a UAV is so significant. If it is a genuine risk (not a psychological artifact) then there may be a systemic or other factor to be addressed. For example (and this clearly applies to manned AC) it is well known that modern precision navigation systems can cause increased collision risks due to that very precision. Would you blame the technology?
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This is now way off track from the original intent of the post, for that I apologise. LCCs can use far less experienced pilots now because at first glance, they are easier to fly using automation, fbw and modern aircraft systems. Have a look in the cockpit of a Super Connie and ask whether a 200 hr co-pilot would be useful. Easy Jet, Ryanair and many others use this technology to keep their passengers safe while driving down their cost base by out sourcing training and employing low experience pilots, amongst other things. Their CEOs suggest that they only need one pilot, the Stewardess' can help if a non-normal requires. With the outsourcing of training and the pay to fly style of endorsement comes poor training. Why would it be different if there is no 'buy in' to the positive results from a training course. Does it matter if the candidate has only a superficial knowledge of the system he or she is being endorsed on?
Captain Sullenberger spoke at length about crew experience and the changes that are now constant in the industry.
Captain Sullenberger spoke at length about crew experience and the changes that are now constant in the industry.
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Huck :
I like that one. It is obvious to pilots.
Now, the following observations exist regardless of current or prospective technology :
For the pilot, one's own life is at stake and hangs on one's skillset.
For the operator, the only thing hanging on their skillset is their job security, and their life is never at risk.
That is one world of difference in the psychology of the relevant persons. It has far reaching effects on how one sees their activity. This goes way beyond mere pleasure of flying, although both aspects are probably more closely related than it would appear.
That is one world of difference in the meaning of the word 'trust' for actual or potential passengers.
I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.
It's the difference between ham and eggs.
The chicken's involved.
The pig's committed.....
It's the difference between ham and eggs.
The chicken's involved.
The pig's committed.....
Now, the following observations exist regardless of current or prospective technology :
For the pilot, one's own life is at stake and hangs on one's skillset.
For the operator, the only thing hanging on their skillset is their job security, and their life is never at risk.
That is one world of difference in the psychology of the relevant persons. It has far reaching effects on how one sees their activity. This goes way beyond mere pleasure of flying, although both aspects are probably more closely related than it would appear.
That is one world of difference in the meaning of the word 'trust' for actual or potential passengers.
Person Of Interest
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EKGann...forget about the Connie...try it on a "newer" A/C like the 727 or 737/200/300/400...Yes I know the 400 may come with CRT's, however that was an option that some airlines didn't employ...
Like to see a new F/O w/ 200 hrs and a brand new set of shiney stripes try to get one of those down when all hell breaks loose...
As for Resar, I think most of us have the picture...
Like to see a new F/O w/ 200 hrs and a brand new set of shiney stripes try to get one of those down when all hell breaks loose...
As for Resar, I think most of us have the picture...
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Dubai plane crash investigation focuses on cargo
