Monarch-Engine fire Birmingham UK
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Monarch-Engine fire Birmingham UK
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, well done guys.
Must have been at a reasonably high TOM if heading to ZTH.
Oh, and who's going to be first to say....."no big deal, blah blah, nothing to see here..."!!
Must have been at a reasonably high TOM if heading to ZTH.
Oh, and who's going to be first to say....."no big deal, blah blah, nothing to see here..."!!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: A long way from here.
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, that struck me as odd. Can any Monarch crews clarify?
If they do have this sort of codeword system in use, 'Cobra' is a bit of an odd one; more dramatic-sounding than I would have thought.
Much like 'Cabin crew: take your positions for operation certain death.'
CC
If they do have this sort of codeword system in use, 'Cobra' is a bit of an odd one; more dramatic-sounding than I would have thought.
Much like 'Cabin crew: take your positions for operation certain death.'
CC
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"huge bang", "sheet of flames", "This is Code Cobra, Code Cobra' and the cabin crew reacted", "captain said, 'We have lost an engine.'.", "The plane was shaking quite badly. It tried to level off and he said, 'We're returning straight away.' - "People were crying. We thought we were going to die." - "We thought the plane was just going to come down. We were over houses.", "big burst of fire", "We shouted to get the kids away from the pitch." "He said people were "deeply shocked" by the time they had returned to the departure lounge and were surprised to find that paramedics were not immediately waiting for them."
Funnily enough, my car had a puncture the other day. We were all screaming "WE'RE GONNA DIE !!!" at the traffic lights, I issued a special code word and my wife sprung into action. People at the traffic lights reported seeing a puff of air and hearing a huge hiss - they were certain the tyre was going down. My sister in law was deeply shocked that there was no ambulance waiting for her at the side of the road.
Funnily enough, my car had a puncture the other day. We were all screaming "WE'RE GONNA DIE !!!" at the traffic lights, I issued a special code word and my wife sprung into action. People at the traffic lights reported seeing a puff of air and hearing a huge hiss - they were certain the tyre was going down. My sister in law was deeply shocked that there was no ambulance waiting for her at the side of the road.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Totally unrelated but the COBRA meetings we hear about on the news when the Government has a crisis actually stands for "Cabinet Office Briefing Room Alpha". As Michael Caine would say "not many people know that" - or in hindsight want to! 
Good job by the crew though - no-one hurt.
A4
PS Agree with Basil - careless talk costs ........
Good job by the crew though - no-one hurt.
A4
PS Agree with Basil - careless talk costs ........
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the Call by the Captain
In an emergency situation like this, it does not surprise me that the captin would anounce to the cabin crew a code word or phrase.
From direct personal experence of a petrol fire on the car deck of a passenger ferry if you here the phrase;
" This is the captain speeking - A working party is urgently required on section A Car deck 2" - Set your brain in gear quick.
As a now informed passenger I would round up everyone I know and quietly say "there's a serious problem listen out for further anouncements - we may have to abandon ship ".
As for the BBC report
if true, am I alone in thinking that prospective PAX should be screened before boarding to weed out the panic ridden, the nervous and the just plain stupid. - A screaming/jumping panic ridden PAX is a bigger threat in a cabin than a contained engine malfunction.
Yes I would be frightenerd like everyone else but the "Screaming Ab Dabs" no chance. Not even if there were snakes on the plane.
The screaming/panic ridden soul is a self obsessed individual with no comprehension for the effect of their behaviour on others. Is there a case for public education for (very rare) situations like this.
Hopefully a non event.- Well done, to the crew I would fly ZB any time.
CAT III
From direct personal experence of a petrol fire on the car deck of a passenger ferry if you here the phrase;
" This is the captain speeking - A working party is urgently required on section A Car deck 2" - Set your brain in gear quick.
As a now informed passenger I would round up everyone I know and quietly say "there's a serious problem listen out for further anouncements - we may have to abandon ship ".
As for the BBC report
if true, am I alone in thinking that prospective PAX should be screened before boarding to weed out the panic ridden, the nervous and the just plain stupid. - A screaming/jumping panic ridden PAX is a bigger threat in a cabin than a contained engine malfunction. Yes I would be frightenerd like everyone else but the "Screaming Ab Dabs" no chance. Not even if there were snakes on the plane.
The screaming/panic ridden soul is a self obsessed individual with no comprehension for the effect of their behaviour on others. Is there a case for public education for (very rare) situations like this.
Hopefully a non event.- Well done, to the crew I would fly ZB any time.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 4th Aug 2010 at 11:40. Reason: Public Education
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im no fan of some of the journalistic nonsense that gets into the press these days so am not defending sensationalist journalism.
I think some of you lot really need to get a grip in appreciating that not everyone is aviation minded, know how an aircraft operates, know crews are trained routinely for such event.To most people if an engine lets go in flight with a bang or should that be "huge explosive bang" and they see flames they assume they are going to crash and die....everyone saw what happened to Concorde ( different circumstances yes) and that ended tragically..
If the language appeared sensationalist do you not consider that your average person might have been scared and used emotive language?
The rugby player might have used "sheet of flame"to describe what they saw....or do witnesses have to be AAIB and cockpit qualified to describe what they saw.
If you'd witnessed the Paris Concorde crash I bet a pound to a penny "huge sheet of flame" would be a faily good description of events....
If I, as a 400hour PPL with a multi engine and aerobatic rating, saw an engine let go on takeoff whilst flying off on my hols, I being a total aviation expert, poster on PPrune (an aviation qualification in itself) and all round smart arse, of course couldnt care less, wouldn't be scared and would exercise, with square jawed steely eyed alacrity, restraint in my language if a journalist wanted my opinion...
I think some of you lot really need to get a grip in appreciating that not everyone is aviation minded, know how an aircraft operates, know crews are trained routinely for such event.To most people if an engine lets go in flight with a bang or should that be "huge explosive bang" and they see flames they assume they are going to crash and die....everyone saw what happened to Concorde ( different circumstances yes) and that ended tragically..
If the language appeared sensationalist do you not consider that your average person might have been scared and used emotive language?
The rugby player might have used "sheet of flame"to describe what they saw....or do witnesses have to be AAIB and cockpit qualified to describe what they saw.
If you'd witnessed the Paris Concorde crash I bet a pound to a penny "huge sheet of flame" would be a faily good description of events....
If I, as a 400hour PPL with a multi engine and aerobatic rating, saw an engine let go on takeoff whilst flying off on my hols, I being a total aviation expert, poster on PPrune (an aviation qualification in itself) and all round smart arse, of course couldnt care less, wouldn't be scared and would exercise, with square jawed steely eyed alacrity, restraint in my language if a journalist wanted my opinion...
I think some of you lot really need to get a grip
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kegworth started off as a "non event" but look what that turned into... Sadly in whatever field of transport when something isn't as it should be it will make the news.. deal with it...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a codeword, basically informs no.1 to head to flight deck for NITS briefing while rest of crew secure the cabin, a good system which seems to work. The word however is not Cobra, was not surprisingly picked up wrongly by a pax expecting imminent death, according to the article.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having any codewords that are designed to be used over the PA in the event of a mishap is a pretty poor idea.
Already the pax are aware something is wrong but likely don't understand exactly what... add to that an announcement over the PA they don't understand and it's guaranteed to put the fear of Christ up them - It's not rocket science.
...Time for an SOP review Monarch!
Already the pax are aware something is wrong but likely don't understand exactly what... add to that an announcement over the PA they don't understand and it's guaranteed to put the fear of Christ up them - It's not rocket science.
...Time for an SOP review Monarch!
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A PA message that
- is indeed an excellent idea and one used by several airlines.
.......and when did pax EVER understand PA's?
informs no.1 to head to flight deck for NITS briefing while rest of crew secure the cabin
.......and when did pax EVER understand PA's?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having any codewords that are designed to be used over the PA in the event of a mishap is a pretty poor idea.
Already the pax are aware something is wrong but likely don't understand exactly what... add to that an announcement over the PA they don't understand and it's guaranteed to put the fear of Christ up them - It's not rocket science.
Already the pax are aware something is wrong but likely don't understand exactly what... add to that an announcement over the PA they don't understand and it's guaranteed to put the fear of Christ up them - It's not rocket science.
I absolutely agree that communication with the passengers is very important and desirable, but only when the situation permits that to be done properly.
Codewords enable a lot of basic instruction to be given to the people who need to know, in a few syllables, and without tying up an otherwise important time resource unnecessarily.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rugby
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is perfectly possible for emergency codes to be used, in order not to panic the people inside. e.g. A well known large public building in London (used to have?) in the event of (say ) a bomb threat, "Will staff members responsible for administration, report to room 99." This meant the you had to search your area for suspicious ityems and report in if anything found. A perfectly innocuous announcement to all but those in the know, but getting the message to those who needed to act.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is perfectly possible for emergency codes to be used, in order not to panic the people inside. e.g. A well known large public building in London (used to have?) in the event of (say ) a bomb threat, "Will staff members responsible for administration, report to room 99." This meant the you had to search your area for suspicious ityems and report in if anything found. A perfectly innocuous announcement to all but those in the know, but getting the message to those who needed to act.
The code isn't meant to deceive passengers, they will be informed as appropriate once time permits. The code is intended to get the crew to follow a particular drill appropriate to their individual and collective crew stations, with the minimum amount of communication at that point.
The flight deck crew are busy with their priorities at this point. Those priorities are first and foremost to fly the aircraft and deal with the problem. Ensure the aircraft flies a safe profile, and to communicate as necessary between themselves and ATC in pretty much that order. (Aviate, navigate, communicate.) Depending on the nature of the problem the "communicate" function may well involve the cabin crew quite early in the process, and the passengers somewhat later, once the immediate priorities have been satisfied.
Code words are used to instigate the cabin crew actions with very few syllables in a couple of perhaps repeated words.
Will staff members responsible for administration, report to room 99!
To be clear, the use of codewords is for brevity in instructing a set of actions. It is not for placating or misleading passengers, many of whom would likely be aware of a problem in any event. To that end it works well and is standard operating procedure for many airlines.
If it offends your sensibility as a passenger, then sorry, but safety is paramount to your immediate concern, the latter hopefully being addressed once the former is guaranteed.
