Age 70 for international pilots?
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Having managed to get older, now 60, and hopefully wiser, especially regarding such lunacy as trying to party until 3 hours before transport (as I'm sure many of you of all ages have done in the past) I find that advancing years have endowed me with the ability to sleep much more readily and soundly than in the past. I have also manged to control my alcohol intake and my diet such that I am probably fitter and more sober than at any time in the past 40 years.
I do more daily exercise than ever before and in my spare time I play a better game of golf than previously. As for my mental condition, well, I would judge that it is pretty much as good as, if not even better than, it was 30 years ago when it was befuddled on several occasions with too much booze, the effects of which turn even the most enthusiatic and apparently competent youth into a gummer.
I stopped flying at 59 because a) I could afford to, b) I emigrated and c) I began a new, philanthropic career. Had I chosen to do so, I'm certain that I could have continued flying several more years, maybe even to 65 and beyond.
I would only suggest that if anyone wants to continue the same stamina sapping regime as for the past 40 odd years, without savouring the fruits of a well earned retirement, you need your head examined!
I do more daily exercise than ever before and in my spare time I play a better game of golf than previously. As for my mental condition, well, I would judge that it is pretty much as good as, if not even better than, it was 30 years ago when it was befuddled on several occasions with too much booze, the effects of which turn even the most enthusiatic and apparently competent youth into a gummer.
I stopped flying at 59 because a) I could afford to, b) I emigrated and c) I began a new, philanthropic career. Had I chosen to do so, I'm certain that I could have continued flying several more years, maybe even to 65 and beyond.
I would only suggest that if anyone wants to continue the same stamina sapping regime as for the past 40 odd years, without savouring the fruits of a well earned retirement, you need your head examined!
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We all know that medical examinations are 99% about the body, and next to nothing about what is going on between the ears.
It's all taken care of in the sim? Not so, all it takes is a buddy examiner and you will pass.
15 years ago I flew with a captain who used personal checklists in order to remember the ordinary checklist. He was eventually removed from flight duty because of a number of reports from his Effohs.
Do that today, and you get hauled into the office for age discrimination/bullying by your local 411A.
This captain had been protected by his buddies for years.
Aging is real. Pretending it's not doesn't change this FACT!
It's all taken care of in the sim? Not so, all it takes is a buddy examiner and you will pass.
15 years ago I flew with a captain who used personal checklists in order to remember the ordinary checklist. He was eventually removed from flight duty because of a number of reports from his Effohs.
Do that today, and you get hauled into the office for age discrimination/bullying by your local 411A.
This captain had been protected by his buddies for years.
Aging is real. Pretending it's not doesn't change this FACT!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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lambourne is a dreamer, he is telling us what he would like to do, (and we are rising to the bait!), the fact that he chooses to fly as an FO when he could be in command says a lot too. lambourne is in fantasy land, he is a Walter Mitty and he needs professional help
As it sands now the age is 65 and that is more than plenty. Any thought to raising it will have serious safety effects on the worlds airlines. No matter what you old guys think you are NOT performing better now than you were at 45.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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all it takes is a buddy examiner and you will pass.
Reintroducing 65 is good, with the option to leave at 60 or anywhere between 60 and 65. Personally I don't think extending to 70 is realistic.
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http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...ing-error.html
Captain age 44, Co-Pilot age 39.
No "Gummers" involved !
Captain age 44, Co-Pilot age 39.
No "Gummers" involved !
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Captain age 44,
Last edited by lambourne; 3rd Sep 2010 at 14:00.
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If this reaches the US, there should be fences established so that raising the age limit doesn't cause furloughs this time. Fat chance with all of the senior old farts at ALPA.
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Doesn't majority of men in 'Western world' die in their 70s and women tend to live bit longer?
How far does it have to go before we see the news of Captains keeling over (and not just to take a brief nap in cruise) more often? Deteriorating mental skills and don't happen overnight and definitely not just last year or two of the person's life.
Why are there rules about the max age of FO with old Captain? Why should it matter, both still alive, or not? At least at the time of departure. If it's utterly impossible for senior Captain to faint/die inflight at the same time as his FO, then why make such rules about age ratio on flight deck?
Why not enjoy recreational flying in retirement, do some instructing or whatever that is, still within aviation?
How far does it have to go before we see the news of Captains keeling over (and not just to take a brief nap in cruise) more often? Deteriorating mental skills and don't happen overnight and definitely not just last year or two of the person's life.
Why are there rules about the max age of FO with old Captain? Why should it matter, both still alive, or not? At least at the time of departure. If it's utterly impossible for senior Captain to faint/die inflight at the same time as his FO, then why make such rules about age ratio on flight deck?
Why not enjoy recreational flying in retirement, do some instructing or whatever that is, still within aviation?
md80fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin, TX USA
Age: 48
Posts: 75 Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?
I wonder if this sense of entitlement and gross disrespect for knowledgeable elders extends into the cockpit? Those who complain should wait their turn and be thankful that they have a flying job at all in this economy.
People like you are absolutely amazing. I suspect the airline you fly for has 20 year F.O.s and you think they are seeking instant gratification.
I will challenge you to who had more expirience and setbacks and time spent in career before upgrade.
Currenty I have 10 years as a major airline F.O. and am in the bottom 10% of the F.O. list. No hope of uprade for at least 6 years.
I came to my current job with over 10,000 hours.
I was basically fired in a merger with a company named after a country so your employees would be spared.
Those captains flying over 60 were hired on age 60 retirements and upgraded on age 60 retirements and now they say people who want to upgrade are impatient.
As for being lucky to have a job I have always had a job,worked hard,networked and demontrated a good work ethic. None of that was to due to luck.
Many of todays pilots have put in 200% of the effort those before them put in only to languish in the right seat for decades. Its shocking to see how many pilots are on the wrong side of this argument.
This is a truly a safety issue. Very few pilots I fly with are as good at 60 as they were at 35-50.
I would have liked to see them lower the retirement age to 55.
Then I could enjoy just a few years in the left seat then gotten out of this business.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin, TX USA
Age: 48
Posts: 75 Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?
I wonder if this sense of entitlement and gross disrespect for knowledgeable elders extends into the cockpit? Those who complain should wait their turn and be thankful that they have a flying job at all in this economy.
People like you are absolutely amazing. I suspect the airline you fly for has 20 year F.O.s and you think they are seeking instant gratification.
I will challenge you to who had more expirience and setbacks and time spent in career before upgrade.
Currenty I have 10 years as a major airline F.O. and am in the bottom 10% of the F.O. list. No hope of uprade for at least 6 years.
I came to my current job with over 10,000 hours.
I was basically fired in a merger with a company named after a country so your employees would be spared.
Those captains flying over 60 were hired on age 60 retirements and upgraded on age 60 retirements and now they say people who want to upgrade are impatient.
As for being lucky to have a job I have always had a job,worked hard,networked and demontrated a good work ethic. None of that was to due to luck.
Many of todays pilots have put in 200% of the effort those before them put in only to languish in the right seat for decades. Its shocking to see how many pilots are on the wrong side of this argument.
This is a truly a safety issue. Very few pilots I fly with are as good at 60 as they were at 35-50.
I would have liked to see them lower the retirement age to 55.
Then I could enjoy just a few years in the left seat then gotten out of this business.
Last edited by Stearperson; 5th Sep 2010 at 17:49.
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Divide and conquer. And so the airline execs win again, pitting old against young. We ought to really be discussing the merits (or lack of) of 70 year old Flight Attendants. There I say, come on old gal, time to retire and give your granddaughter a chance at the job!
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Stearperson,
I don't fly for anyone (non-pilot) but I do work in a field where apprenticeship is the way things are done. I have never before heard the level of hatred displayed on this thread toward those who should be respected, and decided to come out from the shadows and comment. My apologies if I left the impression that I share your profession, it was not intended.
I don't fly for anyone (non-pilot) but I do work in a field where apprenticeship is the way things are done. I have never before heard the level of hatred displayed on this thread toward those who should be respected, and decided to come out from the shadows and comment. My apologies if I left the impression that I share your profession, it was not intended.
Está servira para distraerle.
I'm sure I could rise to the challenge but I am not sure that over the age of sixty five, I'd like to face a roster which consisted of five weeks of earlies with each day being a six sector day through February and January in northern Europe again. What I do know for sure though is that I'd like a jolly good bloke as a first officer with me if I were ever faced with such a timetable. If I were intending to be slightly rude I suppose I could say that having read through quite a lot of the previous pages I'm not at all sure that there isn't a good argument to extend the flying age to seventy just to keep some of today's first officers out of the left hand seat. As for seventy year old flight attendants, it's a good idea, far less of an opportunity for cavorting cheaters down route.
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I voluntarily retired six years ago at 58 and missed it for only the first year. After that, I've always been glad that I don't have to put up with the baloney any more. But the flying and camaraderie were great and I'll always miss that part.
As for any increase past age 65, only folks without a life outside of the airline would want to keep at it ..... and those folks will want to go on forever.
For you young guys, your best shot lies in getting any age extension tied to tougher medical standards enforcement. IMO, the standard U.S. 1st class physical given by many AME's is a joke. I've had many docs over the years.... some great and some that passed you if you could sign the check.
Good Luck!
As for any increase past age 65, only folks without a life outside of the airline would want to keep at it ..... and those folks will want to go on forever.
For you young guys, your best shot lies in getting any age extension tied to tougher medical standards enforcement. IMO, the standard U.S. 1st class physical given by many AME's is a joke. I've had many docs over the years.... some great and some that passed you if you could sign the check.
Good Luck!
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Here is a short story that has some relevance to the question of retirement age...
A farmer went out one day and bought a brand new stud rooster for his chicken coop.
The new rooster struts over to the old rooster and says,
' Okay old fart, time for you to retire.'
The old rooster replies, ' Come on, surely you cannot handle ALL of these chickens. Look what it has done to me.
Can't you just let me have the two old hens over in the corner ? '
The young rooster says, 'beat it, you are washed up and I am taking over.'
The old rooster says, ' I tell you what, young stud. I will race you around the farmhouse.
Whoever wins gets the exclusive domain over the entire chicken coop.'
The young rooster laughs. ' You know you don't stand a chance, old man.
So, just to be fair, I will give you a head start.'
The old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off running after him.
They round the front porch of the farmhouse and the young rooster has closed the gap.
He is only about 5 feet behind the old rooster and gaining fast.
The farmer, meanwhile, is sitting in his usual spot on the front porch when he sees the roosters running by.
The old rooster is squawking loudly and running as hard as he can.
The Farmer grabs his shotgun and ~ BOOM ~
he blows the young rooster to bits.
The farmer sadly shakes his head and says,
'Dammit - - - third gay rooster I bought this month'
MORAL OF THIS STORY
Do not mess with the OLD FARTS
Age, skill, wisdom and a little treachery
Will always overcome youth and arrogance!
The new rooster struts over to the old rooster and says,
' Okay old fart, time for you to retire.'
The old rooster replies, ' Come on, surely you cannot handle ALL of these chickens. Look what it has done to me.
Can't you just let me have the two old hens over in the corner ? '
The young rooster says, 'beat it, you are washed up and I am taking over.'
The old rooster says, ' I tell you what, young stud. I will race you around the farmhouse.
Whoever wins gets the exclusive domain over the entire chicken coop.'
The young rooster laughs. ' You know you don't stand a chance, old man.
So, just to be fair, I will give you a head start.'
The old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off running after him.
They round the front porch of the farmhouse and the young rooster has closed the gap.
He is only about 5 feet behind the old rooster and gaining fast.
The farmer, meanwhile, is sitting in his usual spot on the front porch when he sees the roosters running by.
The old rooster is squawking loudly and running as hard as he can.
The Farmer grabs his shotgun and ~ BOOM ~
he blows the young rooster to bits.
The farmer sadly shakes his head and says,
'Dammit - - - third gay rooster I bought this month'
MORAL OF THIS STORY
Do not mess with the OLD FARTS
Age, skill, wisdom and a little treachery
Will always overcome youth and arrogance!