Age 70 for international pilots?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
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So is the argument about whether a person of a certain age is fit (on objective criteria) to do a job, or about making way for younger people?
If the first, age is irrelevant (other than perhaps as a statistical yardstick);
if the second, then what other field does a Logan's Run-type cull simply so as to make room for newcomers? Why not just kill everyone on their 45th birthday? That'd solve the health and unfunded-pensions problems in one go.
If the first, age is irrelevant (other than perhaps as a statistical yardstick);
if the second, then what other field does a Logan's Run-type cull simply so as to make room for newcomers? Why not just kill everyone on their 45th birthday? That'd solve the health and unfunded-pensions problems in one go.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond Tasmania
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So, let's take this nonsense to it's logical conclusion...
a mate of mine is 87, fit, active and plays good golf...
you reckon he should still be able to command a high speed heavy jet a/c if he can still pass a class one medical?
a mate of mine is 87, fit, active and plays good golf...
you reckon he should still be able to command a high speed heavy jet a/c if he can still pass a class one medical?
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
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It's the saddest thing to see someone that absolutely loves flying forced to retire because they have reached the age of 65.
The saddest thing is to see someone who loves the profession leave the profession because they can't support their family on what they make. It is happening right now by the thousands in the states, as we wait out the five-year freeze that Age 65 brought us.
I fly routinely with pilots who could draw well into the six figures in pension money every year. They had structured their finances to retire at sixty, but now are hanging out because "it's the greatest part-time job in the world."
Love of flying? pah. Love of lucre.
Meanwhile the entire food-chain sits beside the trail, waiting to advance, while the top increases their riches - while shortening their lives.
411A promoting abstinence? Should have told me that a few years ago, mate.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Huck
I know what its like to have to give up things you love because you can't make a living at it.
the whole concept would be thrown out if you could develop an absolutely OBJECTIVE test of who does a good job as an airline pilot and who doesn't...with various degrees...throw out the seniority system and only go by who does the best.
and I would sure like to know how someone is getting a six figure retirement after so many legacy carriers had to give up their pension program. Before 911, I was on track to get a 132k pension. now, it will be pennies on the dollar.
I know what its like to have to give up things you love because you can't make a living at it.
the whole concept would be thrown out if you could develop an absolutely OBJECTIVE test of who does a good job as an airline pilot and who doesn't...with various degrees...throw out the seniority system and only go by who does the best.
and I would sure like to know how someone is getting a six figure retirement after so many legacy carriers had to give up their pension program. Before 911, I was on track to get a 132k pension. now, it will be pennies on the dollar.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Did you ever consider that this was one time where it was good to have no other options than the river straight ahead? No doubt Sully and the FO did a great job, would not the majority of pilots made the same decision?
How about JAL when they blew all hydraulics, airport or Tokyo Bay? They had a choice.
Then consider Flying Tiger's 747 CFIT in Indonesia, if I remember correctly. Total cockpit age of the 3 was over 180, and they repeatedly ignored GPWS and flew into the ground.
And days ago, A-321 in Islamabad.
So wrinkly can go both ways and does not always mean competence.
How about JAL when they blew all hydraulics, airport or Tokyo Bay? They had a choice.
Then consider Flying Tiger's 747 CFIT in Indonesia, if I remember correctly. Total cockpit age of the 3 was over 180, and they repeatedly ignored GPWS and flew into the ground.
And days ago, A-321 in Islamabad.
So wrinkly can go both ways and does not always mean competence.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: US
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I've made this point before, but I guess it has to be stated again. I watched these same people advocating a older retirement age gleefully check seniority list to see who retired or died to see how they had moved up every six months for years. They were also able to reasonably calculate the year in which they would upgrade with "zero growth" at their airline. If we are going to "right the wrong" it should be done in 15-20 years to take most actve pilots out of the equation. If those flying now want to stay they should be allowed to if they want to go to the bottom of the list. I am guessing that their "love of flying" would rapidly disappear if that were the case. What this really boils down to is " I GOT MINE, AND NOW I WANT YOURS".
Jet
Jet
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I GOT MINE, AND NOW I WANT YOURS".
In a rapidly growing airline (EK, excepted, unfortunately for the younger guys) this is normally not a problem.
The younger ones are promoted, with reasonable standards met.
Small air carriers such as ours, flying an older airplane...we train as rapidly as possible, all things considered.
Or, want a rapid Command?
Join a smaller carrier where your past accomplishments and experience are appreciated.
I did...a long time ago.
Grass is greener...etc.
IE: vote with your feet.
No, not your cup of tea?
Wait your turn.
NB.
I personally know one Captain who, being laid off as a First Officer with a very large major US airline, joined a small (but consistantly profitable) charter airline, where he was very rapidly promoted to Command.
Why?
He had the forethought to put his career in perspective, and did what he had to do...instead of crying here on PPRuNe.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
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Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?
I wonder if this sense of entitlement and gross disrespect for knowledgeable elders extends into the cockpit? Those who complain should wait their turn and be thankful that they have a flying job at all in this economy.
I wonder if this sense of entitlement and gross disrespect for knowledgeable elders extends into the cockpit? Those who complain should wait their turn and be thankful that they have a flying job at all in this economy.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I wonder if this sense of entitlement and gross disrespect for knowledgeable elders extends into the cockpit? Those who complain should wait their turn and be thankful that they have a flying job at all in this economy.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?