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Age 70 for international pilots?

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Age 70 for international pilots?

Old 17th Aug 2010, 00:09
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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Highcirrus,
What a great post! Refreshing to read something that's written with humility instead of arrogance.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 00:45
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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You don't consider bidding down to an f/o position classifies you as a loser Lambourne?
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 01:51
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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Lambourne could not be as stupid and insulting of his captains as he sounds. All the FO's in the industry don't show as much hate and disrespect for senior captains as he does. With his low post count I think he is having immature fun with professional pilots to look for a reaction. He probably is signed on with a different name when he isn't acting like a teenager. Either way he has to grow up a lot. Also, maybe he is a teenager with a dad that flies.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 02:20
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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Life without Flying

If flying is "just a career", I understand why you want to stop at age 60 or 65. If flying is a passion and a love then you will do it until you are no longer able to do so, regardless of age or equipment or seat position.

Those who "need" the leftseat at any cost will never listen to the voice of reason, see the desire or absorb the wisdom that will make them a better person or a better pilot.

"Good luck" in your "just a career" choice.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 02:54
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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...will never listen to the voice of reason...
We don't need a reason, we have seniority.
And, as we all know, seniority rules.
The 'younger ones' can like it or lump it, makes no difference to me.
IE: they will just have to await their turn....whenever that might be.
IF ever.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 05:18
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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411A

Well said. It's going to happen anyway!
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 06:32
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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70 years will not happen, of that I'm sure, and a few more over 60 pilots who don't need to listen to reason and then fly with their seniority into a mountain may cause a revised age limit to 60 again.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 07:37
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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An excellent post by highcirrus. I'm sure that he and his 'dinosaur' friends would have absolutely no problem dealing with lambourne. After decades in aviation he will have developed the social and leadership skills to cope with a rich variety of fellow crewmembers. If any captain does not possess these skills and relies on four gold bars for his authority then offloading is the safest option.

Dave
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 07:58
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Any Captain, any where, who deliberately bids down to an f/o position rather than continue in command has a major, major problem!

Lambourne has a major, major problem!

We know it, he doesn't!

Sad, Isn't it?!
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 08:11
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Lambourne, are you still here?

I thought I told you to grab a beer and head for the escape chute!

Do you have "Daddy issues"? I suspect your pathological views go way beyond the flight deck.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 08:44
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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Lambourne must have hit the nail right on its head to trigger all you antiques to fall out of your wheel chairs. Most of you have probably stopped flying years ago.

Sorry guys, you don't find a lot of younger pilots lining up to support your flying after 60, not to mention after 65.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 08:44
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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At an airline that I worked at some years ago we had what were called ' permanent F/Os'.
Not a term that I particularly liked, but it referred to F/Os who were unable to upgrade to Captain status due to some inability on their part to make the transition from the RHS to the LHS.
Lambourne is obviously in this category and I sympathize with the situation he finds himself in.
However, presenting as a bitter and twisted disgruntled F/O achieves nothing for him other than pity and sympathy plus a lot of anger from the Captains who have to pull him into line to operate to a suitable standard. It probably means also that he wont be given a second chance to upgrade to command.
Hopefully, Lambourne will moderate his attitude so that one day he may truly be a member of what we proudly call the "Profession of Airline Pilots "
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 09:10
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Sad to see the bitterness amongst the younger generation. It has always been 10 years to command, longer with the Legacy Carriers. Your turn will come, especially if the Industry keeps this recovery going. I'm a "gummer" by your definition Lamborne, nobody holds my hand, I work with a crew who work to look after each other and have fun doing it. By the way I have my original teeth and they are fine thank you.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 09:14
  #234 (permalink)  

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Sorry guys, you don't find a lot of younger pilots lining up to support your flying after 60, not to mention after 65
The young become old. And when you are old your opinions will change, and surprise surprise, you to will also want to work beyond 60.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 11:09
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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90

Lets shoot for 90, maybe in that time lambourne will learn to be a well ,CRM, adjusted FO.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 12:05
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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At an airline that I worked at some years ago we had what were called ' permanent F/Os'.
If you can still read and comprehend you will find that I did fly Captain for 10 years on both the A and B at my company. Thanks to the FTD's (Fly till I die) group our retirements stopped. Combine Age 65 with the recession and quality of life transitioned from mid line holder Captain to reserve Captain. While being a Captain was enjoyable and I can still bid back when I wish, it just doesn't define my existence.

Any Captain, any where, who deliberately bids down to an f/o position rather than continue in command has a major, major problem!
I really like when you old gompers make statements such as this. It presents a complete lack of knowledge of what goes on at the airline anywhere, but in your dementia laden mind. As a Captain I worked 18 days flying 4 day trips that started at 0600 and usually returned at 2300 all for 75 to 85 hours. As a senior FO I fly 9 days total, the trips start and finish in the afternoon and my pay is 85-89 each month. The pay difference in hourly rates is so small and the international perdiem high enough that I get paid MORE to fly less days than I did as Captain.

Now I may not have that unique vision and insight that such esteemed gummers like yourself have. But if I can get paid more to fly LESS then that makes quite a bit of sense to me. Perhaps if I was so caught up in my self worth like you guys, then I would not be able to see sanity of my argument. If I was only defined by being an airline Captain and unable to function in normal social settings like yourself then I too would probably be unable to comprehend the logic of this situation. You sound a lot like the average old pilot I know that is too cheap to buy a newspaper but blows his money on ridiculous watches, boats, ex-wives and my favorite, the can't miss investment. So many times I have heard you clowns whine about bad investments. Of course these guys were 59 and still heavily invested in stocks during the last down turn. If you guys had an ounce of sense and were able to relinquish control to a fund manager you wouldn't be penniless in your B fund. Nope, you guys are full speed ahead in always being right. Just too bad you are always WRONG.....Just like your assessment of my bidding. Only a egotistical, maniacal Captain like yourself would rather work twice as much for less pay. Yep, that is some real genius you got there Cap'n. Can you tell me what stocks you are invested in?

Last edited by lambourne; 17th Aug 2010 at 12:29.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 12:36
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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We don't need a reason, we have seniority.
Did you learn that reasoning in CRM School? 411A you are the epitome of the mindset that I am talking about.

I am very sure that the majority of you over 60 gummers do make at least one person happy each week. Your current wife (probably the 3rd or 4th Mrs. Capt) jumps for joy when you car backs out of the driveway.

You are a box of contradictions. Putting those forth for everyone to see is a new hobby.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 13:08
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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The young become old. And when you are old your opinions will change, and surprise surprise, you to will also want to work beyond 60.
Nope. I'm set to go at 60, 55 if I have the chance.
Problem is, new pilots may have to fly until 65 (or God forbid 70), in order to get the full pension. For those of you who fly permanently bent over with no pension scheme in sight (FR and the like), you can disregard my latest statement. You will probably be dead or burnt out before 60 anyway.

To Highcirrus in Korea, have you tried to hang out with other people than your fellow dinosaurs? Effohs? They don't want to? Strange!
How much pension from your previous employer do you pocket on top of your current salary while you block upgrades and/or a expat job for another pilot with family and children to take care of?
Any expat in Korea have a lot of war stories to tell. No matter what age.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 13:10
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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I would like to see some more statistically valid argument in favour or against raising that age, like the "Hilton study" that FAA commissioned many years ago.
There was plenty of evidence against raising the age. However, it was a political football and was rushed through the senate by that dead SOB Ted Stevens. The real irony is that Stevens DIED at the hands of an OVER 60 Pilot. You can't make this stuff up!
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 13:22
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst I'm definitely in the camp with lambourne in thinking that at 65, it's time we should give it away, I have to say that if an FO was to carry on with me the way he says he does with the 'old gummers' he flys with, I couldn't (and wouldn't) give a tuppeny you-know-what about his wounded emotions until they - in my opinion - inflicted themselves on flight safety.

Then - on the ground - we'd have a serious talk where I'd offer him the chance to change his ways, and if that did not have the effect I felt it should, the aeroplane would remain at the stand until a replacement FO was found - and FO lambourne would be the one to explain to the Fleet Manager or the psychs at HR why the 'old gummer' turfed him off the flight deck. (In 40+ years in the business, 20+ of which spent in the left seat, I've had one such conversation with an FO.)

lambourne, if it bothers you as much as you say it does, for your own health, you really would be far better off working twenty days a month as 'the man' on a narrow body than six or eight days a month in the right (which for you -in your head at least - is the wrong) seat on a widebody.

Life ain't fair mate, and never has been, and if you can't get your head around that, put yourself somewhere where the unfairness doesn't cause the bile to overflow as your current situation seems to be doing to you. It's unhealthy - for you and for everyone forced to endure your company.
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