Airblue down near Islamabad

[Capn Bloggs]

Been said before but to turn the HDG knob long-way round to the left, past the 6 O'clock, and then have the AFGS turn shortest way to it when HDG is pulled, is illogical.

Why did the pilot turn the HDG bug to the left in the first place? Why does any pilot turn a HDG knob all the way around, past the 6o'clock? Because that's the direction he wanted to turn. When he finally realised his error and pulled, the aircraft went the other way, straight into the hills they would have (just) missed had it turned left when he belatedly pulled.

And another thing...the captain did the right thing eventually; he disconnected the AP when it wasn't doing what he wanted (it turning right instead of left). Unfortunately, he was unable to manually control the aircraft after that. Automation dependency strikes again?

[Easy Street]

the captain did the right thing eventually

Disagree - doing the right thing would have been flying the 'Pull Up' drill first instead of trying to navigate his way out of the situation.

[aterpster]

Wasn't that "confidential" report posted her a long time ago?

[Clandestino]

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

Been said before but to turn the HDG knob long-way round to the left, past the 6 O'clock, and then have the AFGS turn shortest way to it when HDG is pulled, is illogical.

A lot of things have been said before that caused considerable amusement on the part of those who know generally a bit about AFCS. Activating the HDG mode will always turn the aeroplane nearest way to heading bug on anything. To turn long way around one goes into HDG first.

the captain did the right thing eventually; he disconnected the AP when it wasn't doing what he wanted (it turning right instead of left). Unfortunately, he was unable to manually control the aircraft after that.

So after he used inappropriate procedure, lost contact with runway in visual circling, he was right in disconnecting the a/p just to find out he couldn't fly?

Automation dependency strikes again?

How come 25 000 TT pilot is automation dependent? By reading PPRuNe, one would assume that automation dependency is something reserved for the newbies.

[Sciolistes]

How come 25 000 TT pilot is automation dependent? By reading PPRuNe, one would assume that automation dependency is something reserved for the newbies.

Newbies only really know hand flying, they struggle with decisive and appropriate A/P decisions.

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by GobonaStick

Am I missing something? This report came out at the end of 2011, did it not?

Yes, I remember downloading it well over a year ago. There is a thread about it somewhere. Oh well...better discovering late than never Mr.PJ. Thanks.

[CONF iture]

Originally Posted by PJ2

Also, "comments" from the NTSB etc. Available on the Pakistan CAA site.

One BEA comment
The time reference is local time, whereas it is in UTC for the rest of the chapter 8.
The BEA suggests referring to UTC time only.

All very nice. BEA can now make some explanation why they used no less than 5 different time references in the report on Ste-Odile ...

[PJ2]

aterpster, JammedStab;

"Wasn't that "confidential" report posted her a long time ago? " & "There is a thread about it somewhere."

Thanks guys, I would have looked for the final report in the original thread. I don't know how I missed the new thread but I probably didn't do the usual search first.

Regarding the other thread, a gentleman by the handle of "maajam" provided first looks at the "confidential" report. The report's formal availability from the Pakistan CAA site is first mentioned on January 15, 2012 by stealthpilot, post #240.

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by CONF iture

All very nice. BEA can now make some explanation why they used no less than 5 different time references in the report on Ste-Odile ...

Don't know. But seeing as no one has bothered to translate it into english, most of the world knows nothing of it anyways, and that is the biggest problem. Any care to translate in detail?

[CONF iture]

Originally Posted by JammedStab

But seeing as no one has bothered to translate it into english

That was the BEA job, but they are certainly not interested in doing so, same story for Habsheim or the 346 in the wall in TLS.
French only, not a necessity to provide the International version for all to have the opportunity to study and question those reports.
The Ste-Odile report is voluminous but repetitive and empty. I have no intention to translate it, but just confronting the numerous time references is enough to question the BEA credibility.

We have translated the Toulouse 346 report here here and here.

[Capn Bloggs]

Originally Posted by Clandestino

A lot of things have been said before that caused considerable amusement on the part of those who know generally a bit about AFCS. Activating the HDG mode will always turn the aeroplane nearest way to heading bug on anything. To turn long way around one goes into HDG first.

You're the one providing the amusement... When you fly a real aeroplane designed for pilots, you'll find the 717 (and, I assume the MD11) allows the HDG (or TRK) to be preselected the long way round, and will turn, long way round, to the bug when selected. It even has dots around the ND that show which way the aircraft is going to turn when the knob is pulled.

Originally Posted by Clandestino

So after he used inappropriate procedure, lost contact with runway in visual circling, he was right in disconnecting the a/p just to find out he couldn't fly?

That's what I implied. Thanks for repeating it.

Originally Posted by Clandestino

How come 25 000 TT pilot is automation dependent? By reading PPRuNe, one would assume that automation dependency is something reserved for the newbies.

Pity you obviously don't have much of an idea of the concept of automation dependency.