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Easyjet Planning $4bn Aircraft Order - Boeing or Airbus?

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Easyjet Planning $4bn Aircraft Order - Boeing or Airbus?

Old 8th Jan 2002, 23:47
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever the decision will be, it won't be based on "I like the Buss better than Boeing, or vice versa." The flyability and safety are statistically insignificant.

The decision will be based on MONEY, just like ALL airline decisions are based.
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 00:24
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Talking

Yes it's good news for pilots looking for jobs in the UK isn't it? And remember it's 75 x 12 pilots per a/c as we currently work on a crewing ratio of 6 point something per airframe.

I know that our company isn't to everyone's liking and I do sympathise with some of our colleagues in "Full Service" Airlines who wish that everything would just stay the same. But the world, (in short-haul anyway) has changed for ever in Europe and you just gotta move with the times.

An example for you.

This is genuine and was told to me today. My mate and his family want to fly from London to ZRH in the next few weeks, so they went to enquire about the price of tickets. With BA they were quoted Ģ480 each return LHR-ZRH. Not happy with this, they shopped around and they've just bought EZY returns from LTN on the website for a total price of Ģ320 all inclusive.....for all of them to travel! (That's eighty quid EACH including taxes!)

So now try and preach to us about what they're going to be missing when not enjoying the World Traveller experience on a 1 hour 20 minute flight?

Cheery! Max (eJ Spin Doc some say) <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 01:11
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Cool

Jambo

easy is launch customer for NG Cat IIIB from aircraft 16 (or 17) onwards. Thats about mid year.

No. 12 arrives in Feb.

There you have it!
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 01:22
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As fine an aircraft as I believe the 319 to be, I honestly cannot see it winning this battle. Low fares airlines succeed because they cut costs to the bone; adding a new aircraft type, with all the training, spares, infrastructure etc. would undermine EZY in its battle against low cost carriers, all of which (exc. Buzz) rely on 737s; I'm not saying the 319 will never make it as a low cost acft, but for whatever reason, the 737 has - be it in Brazil, Canada, Australia or Europe - been the chosen instrument for low cost airlines. EZY has built its success, a proven formula, on the 737, so why change horses now?

That said, I'm sure Airbus recognises very well that it needs to get the 319 into the low cost market and I am sure the market will throw up further chances, perhaps in the guise of a new carrier, but it's not going to help AI's chances with EZY.
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 02:15
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Costs will surely be the primary driver in determining which aircraft are chosen as has been correctly stated in previous posts. However, both manufacturers know this and will be offering the lowest prices commensurate with sound business practice.
One imagines that for small, ad hoc operators , used 737-300s and 737-400s would be attractive.The scenario is different for an airline with such growth potential as easyjet.
Notwithstanding Boeings commendable re-hash of an aging design,the A320 family offers more space,(width and headroom particularly), and thereby greater passenger appeal. It is also a bit quieter in the cabin and cruises a little faster.
Most importantly though there are the advantages of flexibility of aircraft size, in particular the A321 which offers more seating than any 737 variant,whilst providing outstanding fuel economy.
One imagines that easyjet might already benefit from the extra seats for flights to popular destinations such as Malaga during busy periods.
With auxillary centre tanks fitted the 321 will perform a 6 hour sector with a full load of passengers leaving typical reserves.Therefore it is capable of flying from Scotland to Tenerife even when hampered by considerable headwinds.Capacious,long-legged, yet economical aircraft like this have been proven popular in the UK market.The 757 is a good example.
Lufthansa and BMI have borne the disadvantages of operating both fleets of 737s and 320 family simultaneously.You already know what those two operators have decided for the near and long - term future, dont be too surprised if easyjet do the same!
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 02:43
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Donīt know much about the 737īs and the A320 series from the flightdeck. But there is no question that Airbus are lightyears ahead of Boeing when it comes to where the plane cost money, and thats on the ground. Even if the B737-6/7/800 have slideing carpet it will still take about 20-30 minutes to unload luggage, cargo, and mail on a fully loaded 737. And then it needs to be loaded again. And normally it wil take atleast 4 workers to do the job.

The Airbus can be loaded and unloaded by two workers, because of the container system. If the outgoing payload is at the apron, the turnaround can be done in aprox. 15 min.

We once had a LH A321 that came in 30 min late. We unloaded, and then loaded in 12 minutes, waited for the fueltruck to finish, pax in and out, and they left on time.

Just my oppinion
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 03:46
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I dunno what they'll plump for, but whichever I'm sure they'll be successful with their ethos and accumen. One of my former housemates studied a year behind Stelios at one of the big London universities (UCL I think) and said he had been noted as a star even then.

I must have taken 20 flights with Easy over the years and they've delivered a quality product at a superb price nearly every time, indeed the only time there was a problem it was outwith their control (the big freeze between Xmas and NY in 2000), they brought in a replacement a/c from Titan to get us home and then refunded my fare without my even asking - now that's service. Must have cost them a fortune tho.

More recently I travelled on a 737-700 and from a passenger point of view it is a quality a/c. Engine starting almost indescernable, aircon stayed on and I didn't detect any bus trips. In the cruise it is so quiet - and that was sitting level with the fan disk. Not at all like the A320 I came back from my OPC in in December, noisy and lots of vibration - but then again not the newest being one of the BCal ordered jobbies. Still, wouldn't turn my nose up at anything with fans rather than props straped to it but when and if the time comes I do hope it's orange...
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 04:19
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Danish Pilot- With the recent influx of passengers flying with ezy, ground handling crews have had to be increased from 4 to 5 men to turn the a/c in 20 minutes. (GLA routes)

I agree that the 319 with containers may be turned in 15 minutes but not consistently. There's too much can go wrong with this type of loading procedure - equipment failure etc.
The 737-8 is impossible to turn in a short time due to its monter of a hold!

I'd go with the -700 theory.
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 13:12
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Tug4isfastest - One guy handling the cargobay transportsystem (with the "joy"-stick in the cargohatch) and the containerlift system outside.

The other drives the container to the trucks.

Where are the 2 - 3 other guys...??? (not counting the catering, fuelman, toiletservice, and cleaning)

Even if the cargobay container transport system fails, just put down the locks, and roll the containers out manually by pulling them. We once had a 767 where the system failed. We had to empty the containers inside the cargobay, lift the container out, empty the next one.....and so on. It took very long time, and it all stops if one container is packed with machinery parts = heavy!! The 757 is the worst of them all. Only a 737-800 without slideing carpet is vorse....
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 18:26
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Somebody told me that they read an article in 'The Guardian' yesterday which stated that Frankfurt is to be the next easyJet hub.

Can anyone confirm this?
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 19:01
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Not being an ATPL yet, I can't talk about the technical aspects of the 737 vs Airbus argument.

However, the fact that an airline is willing to put faith in the market to that extent is very good news for all of us, wanabees and existing pilots alike.

Moaning about EJ's service etc. is all well and good but from a purely pilots point of view this is bloody good news, irrespective of which aircraft they eventually buy. I'm pretty certain that if EJ offered any one of the un-employed pilots out there a job they would bite their hand off. One thing I am 100% certain about is that if pilots continue moaning at good news like this then there are plenty of people ready to commence training or part way through it who are very hungry and more than willing to take your places.
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 22:29
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Katy,

The paragraph that was used is as follows:

"EasyJet, the low cost airline, said yesterday that it could open new hubs at Gatwick, Frankfurt and Paris, with 75 new planes worth Ģ2.7bn, in its biggest expansion programme since it began operations six years ago."
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Old 9th Jan 2002, 22:32
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Boeing or Airbus - who knows?
The word from inside is that one of the offers equates to $2.1m per unit (yes, I did say 'per unit') less than the other, and the fighting's only just begun!
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Old 10th Jan 2002, 02:04
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The thing to remember is that this does not just come down to a "per unit" cost issue on the proposed order for 75'ish aircraft....though that is obviously a key driver.

The business plan for easyJet envisages hundreds of aircraft at multiple bases across Europe. Sticking with one supplier means they will be less inclined to give the best price in future orders if they feel confident they have you as a captive customer.

Obviously a saving on these aircraft of such a huge sum is extremely significant, but the real (potential) benefit which the assessment is addressing is future orders.....aircraft 125-175, 200-250, etc. Now if easyJet are by then operating 50+ aircraft of each type, then that negotiation really would get interesting!

In trim
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Old 11th Jan 2002, 17:04
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Michael B.

Sorry chief, but you are talking boll*cks!

Why are Boeing redesigning the entire rudder control system on the 737s?

If you look at some stats' then Concorde is the most dangerous a/c! But that has already been done to death elsewhere. (and I don't agree)

For what it's worth, thank the greek gods for Stellios. With all the redundancies in the aviation world at the moment, an order of this magnitude, whoever gets it, is very good news.
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Old 11th Jan 2002, 17:13
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Michael

you know 95% of statistics are made up?

And the air disaster websites, [as opposed to NTSB or AAIB] well they have no reason to hype it up, no none at all. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

And as for the GF A320 - did you read ANY of the PPRuNe threads about it, or the accident reports? Those guys could have been flying a DC-3 that day for all the difference it would have made to the outcome.
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Old 11th Jan 2002, 17:18
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Unfortunately, regardless of a/c makers or types, people who know nothing about aviation will use so called statistical data to make the sort of ridiculous remarks made by MB. Ah well, c'est la guerre.
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Old 11th Jan 2002, 18:44
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Easy will go 737, talking to airbus will help them get a very good deal.

(airbus gain by keeping down Boeings profits/increaseing there losses from the deal!!!
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Old 12th Jan 2002, 02:09
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Just look at the price SAS paid for their 737-600's .. they got huge discounts..
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Old 12th Jan 2002, 13:50
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xyz_pilot

Read the posts earlier in this thread. Easy may well end up going Boeing, but the danger there is that they are pretty much locking themselves in to a single manufacturer for the long-term....and this will not get them the best deals on future orders.

If they are operating 125 aircraft, a mix of Boeing and Airbus, and suddenly need another 40 or so, then they can play one off against the other. Shrewd move, and with the size easy is at the moment, and the current aviation climate, a very sensible time to be considering this option.

Best of luck to Stelios and all.....helping to keep some hope in the European aviation industry, which in the long term is good for all of us.
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