Air India Express B738 crash

[Wannabe Flyer]

Flight pilot identified as Serbian expatriate Capt Zlatko Glusica



Breaking News: Air traffic resumes at Mangalore airport

Airport Authorities of India issued a press release saying the plane crashed after overshoot the runway.
"The aircraft was following ILS Approach for landing on Runway 24 and the pilot reported to ATC that it is established on ILS approach at about 10 miles from touch down. Landing clearance was given at about four miles from touch down. Aircraft touched down the Runway 24 beyond the touch down zone, overshot the runway and went in the valley beyond the runway," the release said

[ManaAdaSystem]

The 737-800 does not look too bad if you look at the landing performance figures in the FCOM, but in RL... It is one of the most demanding aircraft when it comes short and/or contaminated runways.
I know nothing about the runway state/weather at the time of this accident, but in general:

-I have never landed on a grooved runway in India.
-I have never landed on a "flat" runway in India.

So if it's raining, it will have an amount of water/standing water on it, and your wheels are hardly touching the surface as you bounce along during landing.

Did this crew originate in Dubai, or was this the end of a India-ME-India night duty? If this was the case, I know how these two felt at 6:30 in the morning. It's a common pattern, all airlines in the region (India/ME) does them, but it
doesn't make it any easier or safer.

FL 40 is a preferred option if you are in any way runway limited, but it will give you an "unfamiliar" attitude in the -800. It's easy to end up slightly high when you cross the fence (during normal landings) and the result will often be a long landing. Throw in some pilots allergy against auto brakes, and you will fast find youself in a less than desirable situation.

Talking in general, I have no reason to say the IX crew did one thing or another.

[Kockar]

Well, the pilot was Serbian (with British citizenship), Zlatko Glusica - 53 ( here is his facebook profile: Zlatko Glusica | Facebook ). He was experienced pilot with more than 10.000 flight hours, earned from 1979 (in JAT most probably in B737-300), and from october 2008 in Air India (737-800), and he had experience of Mangalore's airport.
He celebrated his birthday on may 16th. (some cheers and thanks are on his FB profile)

[Neptunus Rex]

Those photographs are dreadful. Why are there so many ghouls getting their 'eyeful' so close to the wreckage? Many of them are very close to the rear fuselage, where the flight data recorders are located. Rubberneckers should not be allowed to contaminate the scene of an investigation. Where are the police?

[spedfast]

VOML Weather

From the press release of India Meteorological Department

Based on the Current Weather reports of Mangalore (Bajpe) airport and Synoptic Observations of Mangalore, it is inferred that visibility at 0030 UTC ( 0600 IST) was 6000 Meters and fair weather prevailed from 2200 UTC of 21st May to 0030 UTC of 22nd May. Light Drizzle was observed at 0100UTC (0630 IST) with associated visibility 4000 Metes. 1 MM rain was recorded since evening of 21st May to 0300 UTC ( 0830 IST) of 22nd May 2010.

[Kulverstukas]

Looking on photos, weather seems quite fine, with no sign of showers or thunderstorm lately (soil and green is dry).

[takeoffpowerset]

what I fail to understand is instead of speculating so much on what caused the crash and having 100 different theories , why doesn't someone interview the AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER @ Mangalore ATC tower , he would have seen the whole thing live and should be able to tell what exactly caused such a grave disaster!!!!

no doubt that this tragic accident happened at a time when indian aviation was just about to come out from the ongoing recession in the industry.

[skyboy1919]

Does anyone know where the crew were in relation to their duty? Would this have been the last sector of a long turnaround? Does Air India Express have a base at Mangalore?

Can this airport handle anything bigger than the B737-800?

Cheers

[TWT]

Neptunus Rex

Rubberneckers exist everywhere.Plenty in Tripoli recently,Smolensk,Indonesia at crash sites wandering around aircraft wreckage.And at traffic accidents the world over.Human nature unfortunately.Police tend to be a bit overwhelmed in the immediate aftermath of any disaster co-ordinating rescue access,looking for survivors etc.Preserving a crash site for accident investigators will always take a back seat to more immediate concerns.

[VHHH07R]

According to the civil aviation minister Mr Patel's just concluded press conference

137 adult 19 children 4infants 6 crew members

Copilot based at mangalore(VOML)N and familiar with terrain

Visiblity at time 6 kms , Calm winds , Available ILS approach

New runway operational in 2006 and certified by DGCA TECHNICAL AUTHORITY with length of around 8000 feet with friction quotient in acceptable limits

All survivors had a coomon version that aircraft after landing applied heavy braking and shook , vibrated and subsequently overshot runway

Entire wreckage found (did not mention if FDR AND CVR are found yet)

One of the wings collided with the localizer at the end of runway and veered off

after that aircraft plunged into valley/cliff of around 200-300 metres

(According to a news channel black box of ix-812 recovered)

(Meanwhile Boeing is sending its team to assist with the investigation)

[Rananim]

Factors that may be involved:
-landing @ 6am after 8 hrs FT(MGL-DXB-MGL) and 12 hrs FDP..was rest period satis prior etc
-hot/high approach leading to late touchdown
-lack of training in aborted landings..sim checks only cover GA's at minima not a rwy GA..procedure is stand TL's mid position announcing "GO AROUND,F15"(PNF will set flaps 15),trim to FIVE,set 85-90% N1 and rotate at <>Vref..Vref40=V2 F15,Vref 15=V2 F1
-the usual "get home-itis" which can effect even seasoned and disciplined pilots
-tires..it is known that Indian operators upgrade the min tread threshold when the monsoon weather hits..monsoon is due next month so tires may have been a factor
-crew communications-rwy GA is not a difficult maneuver but requires prompt and well-rehearsed actions by both PF and PNF..reverse should not have been activated..once activated,rwy GA is normally not an option..but in a desperate situation with the rwy end looming,anything is possible

With 8000 ' of concrete and reasonable wx,late touchdown and fatigue must rank high in possible list of suspects..burst tire is rumored and would have controllability issues and be a distraction ie..late selection of reversers or induce pilot to try for a GA even after rev activation

regardless,the seeds of most overruns are sown on the approach..I have flown in SE Asia and Japan and most pilots dont know how to recover safely from a hot/high approach(GA is safest option,but option 2-ie the recovery technique is not to be dismissed and should be trained..but its not..training skippers want the line pilot to GA so they dont train it).

[Kockar]

And this Aerodrome Obstacle chart is also some sort of information:
http://www.aai.aero/public_notices/(...A06-24(BW).pdf

Charts (including ILS24), here: Airports Authority of India

[fmgc]

Seems like an aquaplaning scenario. Was it raining.

This is just the sort of ill-informed speculation that we don't need.

To suggest that it was aquaplaning and THEN ask if it was raining??

[widgeon]

gives some idea of a normal landing there.

[bekolblockage]

gives some idea of a normal landing there

Thanks for the vid.
Looks like that arrival was on R27 - the short runway. You can see the much longer R24 heading off to the left as they come over the threshold. Presume the drop-off is just as bad off 24.
Its a fair way down, but I'm still surprised at the level of destruction of the aircraft compared to other similar over-runs. Must have still been doing a fair rate of knots.

[deSitter]

"Those photographs are dreadful. Why are there so many ghouls getting their 'eyeful' so close to the wreckage? Many of them are very close to the rear fuselage, where the flight data recorders are located. Rubberneckers should not be allowed to contaminate the scene of an investigation. Where are the police?"

It's India - you cannot believe how many people are always crowding about and milling around - it's hellish in places.

-drl

[zaccy]

Vid of a landing on R24

[protectthehornet]

rananmim

you are quite right when you say the seeds of overrun are sewn during the approach.

isn't it funny, how we can't communicate here on a computer about middle markers, yet expect people of different nations to communicate in the cockpit?

FWIW a middle marker is an electronic navigation aid...located prior to the runway (in most situations) about where DH is on a standard ILS.

The center of the runway would mean to me the centerline

the middle of the runway...could mean the centerline or halfway down the runway.

so many communication difficulties and we can type this stuff in the safety and comfort of our own homes.

There are few airports in the world that I wouldn't land at the 1000' fixed distance marker.

Edwards air force base might be one. Vandenberg might be two.

all others...and I mean it...all others demand us to do our best, to be ready for the worst day.

[Pugachev Cobra]

Do investigators examine pax phones and cameras?

In recent years it has become so much common that almost every passenger has a portable electronic device capable of recording videos, that you can see a lot of videos on the internet from a passenger point of view of takeoffs and landings. Given that not everyone uploads their videos, we can assume there are more recordings taking place.

I can't help but think that there is good reason to expect that some passenger was filming the landing.

My question is, do any of you know how are recovery team procedures these days about electronic devices?

It's a long shot, but retrieving all electronic devices, especially cell phones and cameras, and trying to retrieve its memory, in the hopes of finding a recorded video from an incident/accident, would provide valuable information for the investigation.

Has it been done before? Or at least, are there legal implications that would hamper its use in the benefit of aviation safety?

[Gringobr]

Air NZ

I think the first accident to be filmed was Air NZ which flew into a mountain in Antarctica in 1979
Because it was a tourist, sight seeing flight, many passengers were filming it and the moment of impact was caught on tape.
I believe it helped corroborate the white out effect, rarely known (or better not fully appreciated) until then..