Afriqiyah Airbus 330 Crash
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Investigation finished within 6 months???
The Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Rosenthal has been in Tripoli last Sunday. He spoke to Mustafa Abdul Jali about the accident investigation. The Minister stated that the investigation was completed for 70% (most likely the work done by the BEA). He hoped that the investigation would be finished within 6 months. However, no guarantees could be given.
NOS Nieuws - Rosenthal op bezoek in Tripoli
NOS Nieuws - Rosenthal op bezoek in Tripoli
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Investigation of Tripoli crash published before end of summer
Finally news on the investigation on the cause of the Airbus A330 crash.
Report ready before the end of summer.
Google translation of 'Onderzoek ramp Tripoli snel klaar' - Binnenland | Het laatste nieuws uit Nederland leest u op Telegraaf.nl [binnenland]
TRIPOLI - It will not be long until the investigation into the crash in Tripoli has been completed. That is the principal investigator Libyan Neji Dhaou against the NOS said. The revolt against Gaddafi's regime led to the earlier delay, but Dhao expected within weeks the draft report for comments around to send.
In May 2010 came to 103 people in the crash, including 70 Dutch. A 9-year-old boy from Tilburg survived as the only passenger plane crash.
The official declaration of the Kaddafiregime after the disaster was that the pilot had received a cardiac arrest. According to other sources of the two pilots had enough rest and he failed during landing in rough weather.
Report ready before the end of summer.
Google translation of 'Onderzoek ramp Tripoli snel klaar' - Binnenland | Het laatste nieuws uit Nederland leest u op Telegraaf.nl [binnenland]
TRIPOLI - It will not be long until the investigation into the crash in Tripoli has been completed. That is the principal investigator Libyan Neji Dhaou against the NOS said. The revolt against Gaddafi's regime led to the earlier delay, but Dhao expected within weeks the draft report for comments around to send.
In May 2010 came to 103 people in the crash, including 70 Dutch. A 9-year-old boy from Tilburg survived as the only passenger plane crash.
The official declaration of the Kaddafiregime after the disaster was that the pilot had received a cardiac arrest. According to other sources of the two pilots had enough rest and he failed during landing in rough weather.
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Finally news on the investigation of the Afriqiyah Airbus A330 crash at Tripoli.
The draft investigation report is ready and sent to the Dutch Safety Investigation authorities.
After experts will comment on the report, the final report will be ready begin of 2013.
translation of news which appeared today
Google Vertalen
The draft investigation report is ready and sent to the Dutch Safety Investigation authorities.
After experts will comment on the report, the final report will be ready begin of 2013.
translation of news which appeared today
Google Vertalen
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Today finally some news on the release of a final report on the investigation of the Afriqiyah A330 crash.
The public release of the report has been postponed for a few months.
reported at
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL...vaartnieuws.nl
google translation:
THE HAGUE - The investigation into the plane crash in the Libyan capital Tripoli in 2010, which killed seventy Dutch, will be released in the public in a few months. Minister Frans Timmermans of Foreign Affairs on Monday informed the Lower House. In November, the draft version of the report concluded.
This version has been sent to several authorities for comment, including the Dutch Safety Board. Then the expectation of the Research Council is the final report early this year would be made public. The comments of the various agencies are now processed by the Libyan authorities. Only when they have completed, the final report comes out.
The research was greatly delayed by the revolution in the North African country that ended the regime of Muammar Gaddafi. When the disaster on 12 May with an Airbus A330-200 of airline Afriqiyah Airways 103 people were killed. Only a nine year old Dutch boy survived the disaster.
The public release of the report has been postponed for a few months.
reported at
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL...vaartnieuws.nl
google translation:
THE HAGUE - The investigation into the plane crash in the Libyan capital Tripoli in 2010, which killed seventy Dutch, will be released in the public in a few months. Minister Frans Timmermans of Foreign Affairs on Monday informed the Lower House. In November, the draft version of the report concluded.
This version has been sent to several authorities for comment, including the Dutch Safety Board. Then the expectation of the Research Council is the final report early this year would be made public. The comments of the various agencies are now processed by the Libyan authorities. Only when they have completed, the final report comes out.
The research was greatly delayed by the revolution in the North African country that ended the regime of Muammar Gaddafi. When the disaster on 12 May with an Airbus A330-200 of airline Afriqiyah Airways 103 people were killed. Only a nine year old Dutch boy survived the disaster.
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Is it common practise to issue a draft investigation to a 3rd party, not officially involved in the investigation procedures?
In this case the Transport & Veiligheidsraad of the Dutch Government.
Secondly, my earlier question was about an eventual (provisional) financial compensation to the estates of the Dutch victims. The press did not publish substantial information about this subject.
The Dutch daily, "Telegraaf" lately published a random article about the diaster but did not came with explicit information on top of what we know, or suspect, already.
What is the basic text of this "preliminary" or draft report? Is it in French or English? I do read both languages.
In this case the Transport & Veiligheidsraad of the Dutch Government.
Secondly, my earlier question was about an eventual (provisional) financial compensation to the estates of the Dutch victims. The press did not publish substantial information about this subject.
The Dutch daily, "Telegraaf" lately published a random article about the diaster but did not came with explicit information on top of what we know, or suspect, already.
What is the basic text of this "preliminary" or draft report? Is it in French or English? I do read both languages.
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Yes it is normal common practice to Send preliminary drafts reports to third involved parties for comment before publication . Nothing wrong here . I doubt very much , seing the parties invilved , that the report will be in other than English , definitively not in French I would say.
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Accident Report and Compensation
The draft report will be in English (as per ICAO Standards and Chicago Convention 1944, Annex 13). Ditto the final report. No public access to the draft, but Airbus and the Libyan Government will have their say over the Draft version. The families of the deceased passengers and crew will not have any say in that process.
As for compensation, there is a strict two year time limit from the date of the accident to bring claims against the airline. (Obviously the airline is insured, actually at Lloyds of London.) If the Accident report reveals an Airbus problem, then claims are still valid against them in certain countries.
This highlights the problems that families of deceased passengers and crew face when accident reports are slow to be published. The last time this happened was the Kenya Airways KQ507 at Cameroon in May 2007, when it took over 3 years for the accident report to be published.
Please PM me if you need specific advice about this accident as I am representing many of the families.
As for compensation, there is a strict two year time limit from the date of the accident to bring claims against the airline. (Obviously the airline is insured, actually at Lloyds of London.) If the Accident report reveals an Airbus problem, then claims are still valid against them in certain countries.
This highlights the problems that families of deceased passengers and crew face when accident reports are slow to be published. The last time this happened was the Kenya Airways KQ507 at Cameroon in May 2007, when it took over 3 years for the accident report to be published.
Please PM me if you need specific advice about this accident as I am representing many of the families.
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I am an ex airport manager and used to fly single prop light aircraft. I am still interested in airline business and related subjects.
The Afriqyah-case interest me because of the fact that ultra-modern aircraft flies in an environment where technical / instrumental support from modern ILS sytems is missing and/or not working.
It looks like the Airbus is too sophisticated for use in African (conflicting) conditions. Unless flown by those who are die hard veterans.
I must say that I am still surprised that the Lybians could conclude a final issue in this bizarre accident.
The Afriqyah-case interest me because of the fact that ultra-modern aircraft flies in an environment where technical / instrumental support from modern ILS sytems is missing and/or not working.
It looks like the Airbus is too sophisticated for use in African (conflicting) conditions. Unless flown by those who are die hard veterans.
I must say that I am still surprised that the Lybians could conclude a final issue in this bizarre accident.
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The report on the crash in Tripoli will be made public very soon. Maybe even this week although an exact date has not been announced.
At February 27 the Dutch Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid issued a press release. See the Dutch version here.
Publicatie onderzoek vliegramp Tripoli verwacht - Pers - De Onderzoeksraad voor veiligheid
Will keep you posted as soon as the report is available.
At February 27 the Dutch Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid issued a press release. See the Dutch version here.
Publicatie onderzoek vliegramp Tripoli verwacht - Pers - De Onderzoeksraad voor veiligheid
Will keep you posted as soon as the report is available.
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Human error and technical failure caused Afriqiyah Airbus 330 crash
Investigators have told Dutch NOS that the cause of the Afriqiyah Airbus A330 crash was due to human error and technical failure.
The report of the cause will be presented at February 28.
Source:
NOS Teletekst
The report of the cause will be presented at February 28.
Source:
NOS Teletekst
I Have Control
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Oh Yeah?....
For "technical failure" read "another Middle-East Cover-Up".
Shades of the Egyptair pilot in-flight suicide denial. These people just cannot bear to admit their mistakes. Ever. Which is why I personally would never fly with such airlines.
Shades of the Egyptair pilot in-flight suicide denial. These people just cannot bear to admit their mistakes. Ever. Which is why I personally would never fly with such airlines.
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Lets wait and read the report outselves when it becomes available before jumping to conclusions.
The report does says HUMAN Error is one of the causes! And technical failure which could be navigational aid (read about the NDB which was more unserviceable than operational) or the aircraft.
In the past (Khadafi time) the government said the pilot got a heartattack. This is not listed as a cause anymore in the official report.
The report does says HUMAN Error is one of the causes! And technical failure which could be navigational aid (read about the NDB which was more unserviceable than operational) or the aircraft.
In the past (Khadafi time) the government said the pilot got a heartattack. This is not listed as a cause anymore in the official report.
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"It looks like the Airbus is too sophisticated for use in African (conflicting) conditions. Unless flown by those who are die hard veterans."
Utter nonsense.The aircraft is not the factor is this case, but non compliance with instrument procedures and lack of flying skills.
having flown many years in Lybia myself as expat captain, we were often politically forced to fly with local lybian co- pilots, who all showed, despite many years of flightexperience similar caracteristics: Poor aircraft knowledge and flying skills, low compliance to instrument procedures, VFR orientated .
All occasions when we hit the minima and negative contact, they would continue visual "trying to find the runway" instead of going around, often following a road or similar landmarks.
Almost certain this is what happened here. Having flown the NBD to RWY 09 a lot there is nothing inherently dangerous about it and the airbus would have certainly assisted them with a GPS overlay to make it even more accurate, especially if the accuracy of the NBD would have let them down.
What contributes to the crews lack of airmanship is that they did not ask for 27 with an ILS-the wind was calm- (the sun would not be glaring in their face and lower minima), but most of all that fog-morning fog in Tripoli is -and any local pilot can or should tell you that-allways is a very shorterm issue, and will clear in 20-30 min, often less and a short hold would have solved it.
Instead the crew choose to shortcut and take RWY 09 to save time, hoping to get to the minima visually albeit against the odds and thereafter decided to continue visually, "not to lose face", even when they did not have the RWY in sight, and killing all those innocent people in the process...
Utter nonsense.The aircraft is not the factor is this case, but non compliance with instrument procedures and lack of flying skills.
having flown many years in Lybia myself as expat captain, we were often politically forced to fly with local lybian co- pilots, who all showed, despite many years of flightexperience similar caracteristics: Poor aircraft knowledge and flying skills, low compliance to instrument procedures, VFR orientated .
All occasions when we hit the minima and negative contact, they would continue visual "trying to find the runway" instead of going around, often following a road or similar landmarks.
Almost certain this is what happened here. Having flown the NBD to RWY 09 a lot there is nothing inherently dangerous about it and the airbus would have certainly assisted them with a GPS overlay to make it even more accurate, especially if the accuracy of the NBD would have let them down.
What contributes to the crews lack of airmanship is that they did not ask for 27 with an ILS-the wind was calm- (the sun would not be glaring in their face and lower minima), but most of all that fog-morning fog in Tripoli is -and any local pilot can or should tell you that-allways is a very shorterm issue, and will clear in 20-30 min, often less and a short hold would have solved it.
Instead the crew choose to shortcut and take RWY 09 to save time, hoping to get to the minima visually albeit against the odds and thereafter decided to continue visually, "not to lose face", even when they did not have the RWY in sight, and killing all those innocent people in the process...
Last edited by space pig; 2nd Mar 2013 at 21:30.
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Final report on crash is available for download
Today the Libyan authorities published the final report on the Airbus A330 crash. It can be downloaded here
مصلØ*Ø© الطيران المدني - Home
Big human errors are the main cause.
The aircraft's approach was too low without proper sight of the ground. Pilots did not work together properly, were tired and distracted by busy radio communications. Also the weather forecast was not correct.
Also the co-pilot pulled nose up while the captain pulled nose down!
Below is a small part of the complete report which has 4 PDF files.
Probable Cause
A final approach carried out in common managed guidance mode should have relieved the crew of their tasks. The limited coordination and cooperation between the two crew members, especially the change into vertical selected guidance mode by the PF, probably led to a lack of a common action plan.
The lack of feedback from the 28 April 2010 flight, flown by the same crew on the same aircraft, did not allow them to anticipate the potential risks associated with managing non-precision approaches.
The pilots’ performance was likely impaired because of fatigue, but the extent of their impairment and the degree to which it contributed to the performance deficiencies that occurred during the flight cannot be conclusively determined.
During the go-around, the crew was surprised not to acquire visual references. On one hand the crew feared exceeding the aircraft’s speed limits in relation to its configuration, and on the other hand they were feeling the effects of somatogravic illusion due to the aircraft acceleration. This probably explains the aircraft handling inputs, mainly nose-down inputs,
applied during the go-around. These inputs were not consistent with what is expected in this flight phase. The degraded CRM did not make it possible for either crew member to identify and recover from the situation before the collision with the ground, even when the TAWS warnings were activated close to the ground.
Based on elements from the investigation, the accident resulted from:
-The lack of common action plan during the approach and a final approach
continued below the MDA, without ground visual reference acquired.
-The inappropriate application of flight control inputs during a go- around and on the
activation of TAWS warnings,
- The lack of monitoring and controlling of the flight path.
These events can be explained by the following factors:
- Limited CRM on approach that degraded during the missed approach. This
degradation was probably amplified by numerous radio-communications during the final approach and the crew’s state of fatigue,
-Aircraft control inputs typical in the occurrence of somatogravic perceptual illusions,
- Inappropriate systematic analysis of flight data and feedback mechanism within the AFRIQIYAH Airways.
- Non adherence to the company operation manual, SOP and standard terminology.
In addition, the investigation committee found the following as contributing factors to the accident:
-Weather available to the crew did not reflect the actual weather situation in the final approach segment at Tripoli International Airport.
-In adequacy of training received by the crew.
-Occupancy of tower frequency by both air and ground movements control.
مصلØ*Ø© الطيران المدني - Home
Big human errors are the main cause.
The aircraft's approach was too low without proper sight of the ground. Pilots did not work together properly, were tired and distracted by busy radio communications. Also the weather forecast was not correct.
Also the co-pilot pulled nose up while the captain pulled nose down!
Below is a small part of the complete report which has 4 PDF files.
Probable Cause
A final approach carried out in common managed guidance mode should have relieved the crew of their tasks. The limited coordination and cooperation between the two crew members, especially the change into vertical selected guidance mode by the PF, probably led to a lack of a common action plan.
The lack of feedback from the 28 April 2010 flight, flown by the same crew on the same aircraft, did not allow them to anticipate the potential risks associated with managing non-precision approaches.
The pilots’ performance was likely impaired because of fatigue, but the extent of their impairment and the degree to which it contributed to the performance deficiencies that occurred during the flight cannot be conclusively determined.
During the go-around, the crew was surprised not to acquire visual references. On one hand the crew feared exceeding the aircraft’s speed limits in relation to its configuration, and on the other hand they were feeling the effects of somatogravic illusion due to the aircraft acceleration. This probably explains the aircraft handling inputs, mainly nose-down inputs,
applied during the go-around. These inputs were not consistent with what is expected in this flight phase. The degraded CRM did not make it possible for either crew member to identify and recover from the situation before the collision with the ground, even when the TAWS warnings were activated close to the ground.
Based on elements from the investigation, the accident resulted from:
-The lack of common action plan during the approach and a final approach
continued below the MDA, without ground visual reference acquired.
-The inappropriate application of flight control inputs during a go- around and on the
activation of TAWS warnings,
- The lack of monitoring and controlling of the flight path.
These events can be explained by the following factors:
- Limited CRM on approach that degraded during the missed approach. This
degradation was probably amplified by numerous radio-communications during the final approach and the crew’s state of fatigue,
-Aircraft control inputs typical in the occurrence of somatogravic perceptual illusions,
- Inappropriate systematic analysis of flight data and feedback mechanism within the AFRIQIYAH Airways.
- Non adherence to the company operation manual, SOP and standard terminology.
In addition, the investigation committee found the following as contributing factors to the accident:
-Weather available to the crew did not reflect the actual weather situation in the final approach segment at Tripoli International Airport.
-In adequacy of training received by the crew.
-Occupancy of tower frequency by both air and ground movements control.
Last edited by 1stspotter; 28th Feb 2013 at 12:21.
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Conflicting stick inputs again. confusion PNF-PF, lack of CRM , no calls of who has control before taking over.. reminds me of another A330 crash report..