Afriqiyah Airbus 330 Crash
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Charts for TIP
Has anybody charts (links) for landing at TIP ?
Any information for VOR/NDB approach ?
Is there a difference between 09 and 27 runway ? I think about VOR/NDB 09 and ILS on the 27 !
Thanks
Any information for VOR/NDB approach ?
Is there a difference between 09 and 27 runway ? I think about VOR/NDB 09 and ILS on the 27 !
Thanks
CWT almost empty, bad insulation of fuel probe wiring. Pitch change at final caused spark just above fuel. Vapour just between upper and lower explosion limits. Production fault.
A memorable quote from PJ2
I do agree that there is a poor signal to noise ratio in the early posts following any accident. I keep looking for actual links in posts from established news media to support some supposition or questioning. Simply citing ancedotal experience or gut feelings as facts does nothing for a discussion in this section (now in Jet Blast that's the place to discuss
I have no idea what evidence some posters are using to support what may be valid suppositions or areas of investigative interest Perhaps in the sense of Rumors or News an actual specific link might help.
So far I have only seen random badly broken up wreckage with little sign of pool fire.
Occam razor Posibilities for that observation alone might be a flat impact through trees with the fuel tanks somewhere other in the debris pictures than shown todate.
Need more descriptive photos including the engine inlets
Most in between know nothing and aren't shy about proving it.
I have no idea what evidence some posters are using to support what may be valid suppositions or areas of investigative interest Perhaps in the sense of Rumors or News an actual specific link might help.
So far I have only seen random badly broken up wreckage with little sign of pool fire.
Occam razor Posibilities for that observation alone might be a flat impact through trees with the fuel tanks somewhere other in the debris pictures than shown todate.
Need more descriptive photos including the engine inlets
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plates...
try this one - old and maybe not all the approaches, but useful nonetheless...
http://www.filedump.net/dumped/hllt1238362365.pdf
http://www.filedump.net/dumped/hllt1238362365.pdf
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One of the things I don't see emphasized (forgive me if I missed a post that did) is that, no matter how good or bad ATC, Navaids, Wx conditions, or any other external factors may be, it is the pilot/crew's responsibility to know their aircraft and it's capabilities, and to stay within those capabilities, and to stay within their own personal "envelope" of experience and training.
At first blush, this tragedy seems to be caused by the crew going outside of their envelopes... whether by a corporate culture that allows unqualified crews to operate their aircraft, or by an attitude of TIA (This Is Africa), or any other breach of good sense operational standards.
To add to some that others have said... to say that Africa has to adhere to ICAO standards, is fairly naive. The airspace in any country is owned and administered by that country. If they don't meet ICAO standards (this describes most African countries in one way or another) don't be surprised. Most African governments do things their own way, with little regard to anyone else's opinions or "rules".
As someone with a good bit of Africa flying experience, the presence of ATC, in most situations, is a detriment, rather than an enhancement, of safety... and I long for the "good old days" when aircraft talked to one another on a common traffic advisory frequency, and you were rarely in range of a tower with a "controller" in it!
All of that being said, the TIA factor suggests that this won't change anytime soon, and raises a flag to warn that Afriqiyah should be avoided at all costs in your travel plans.
At first blush, this tragedy seems to be caused by the crew going outside of their envelopes... whether by a corporate culture that allows unqualified crews to operate their aircraft, or by an attitude of TIA (This Is Africa), or any other breach of good sense operational standards.
To add to some that others have said... to say that Africa has to adhere to ICAO standards, is fairly naive. The airspace in any country is owned and administered by that country. If they don't meet ICAO standards (this describes most African countries in one way or another) don't be surprised. Most African governments do things their own way, with little regard to anyone else's opinions or "rules".
As someone with a good bit of Africa flying experience, the presence of ATC, in most situations, is a detriment, rather than an enhancement, of safety... and I long for the "good old days" when aircraft talked to one another on a common traffic advisory frequency, and you were rarely in range of a tower with a "controller" in it!
All of that being said, the TIA factor suggests that this won't change anytime soon, and raises a flag to warn that Afriqiyah should be avoided at all costs in your travel plans.
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This aircraft had a bad birdstrike through an engine not too long ago, registering max vib, apparently recommended inspection procedures were not followed afterwards.
The crew did indicate a problem before landing. If as reported the aircraft 'exploded' in the air, a possibility is a catastrophic engine separation causing explosion.
The crew did indicate a problem before landing. If as reported the aircraft 'exploded' in the air, a possibility is a catastrophic engine separation causing explosion.
Last edited by JG1; 13th May 2010 at 14:30.
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Hi,
billteasdale
This is not consistant with the above quote
So I correct you
All of that being said, the TIA factor suggests that this won't change anytime soon, and raises a flag to warn that Africa should be avoided at all costs in your travel plans.
IMHO it's unfair.
billteasdale
To add to some that others have said... to say that Africa has to adhere to ICAO standards, is fairly naive. The airspace in any country is owned and administered by that country. If they don't meet ICAO standards (this describes most African countries in one way or another) don't be surprised. Most African governments do things their own way, with little regard to anyone else's opinions or "rules".
As someone with a good bit of Africa flying experience, the presence of ATC, in most situations, is a detriment, rather than an enhancement, of safety... and I long for the "good old days" when aircraft talked to one another on a common traffic advisory frequency, and you were rarely in range of a tower with a "controller" in it!
As someone with a good bit of Africa flying experience, the presence of ATC, in most situations, is a detriment, rather than an enhancement, of safety... and I long for the "good old days" when aircraft talked to one another on a common traffic advisory frequency, and you were rarely in range of a tower with a "controller" in it!
All of that being said, the TIA factor suggests that this won't change anytime soon, and raises a flag to warn that Afriqiyah should be avoided at all costs in your travel plans.
All of that being said, the TIA factor suggests that this won't change anytime soon, and raises a flag to warn that Africa should be avoided at all costs in your travel plans.
IMHO it's unfair.
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Urgent Advisory from Airbus
Airbus sent to all types operators an urgent advisory regarding the STALL RECOVERY PROCEDURE:
"purpose:
Recent industry events have drawn attention to the importance of appropriate pilot reaction in the case of stall."
This part is followed by flight ops recommendations and training advices..... it may be a clue.
what do you think?
"purpose:
Recent industry events have drawn attention to the importance of appropriate pilot reaction in the case of stall."
This part is followed by flight ops recommendations and training advices..... it may be a clue.
what do you think?
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obiwan78 (I'm new here)
#200;
#201;
Being new doesn't mean that you have to be ignorant and behaving like a donkey.
What one think is a stupid post can be important to someone else. Asking WHO worked on board could maybe have qualified for a comment.
If you had read the thread you participate in from the beginning, the link for the charts was already at page 3 (#53).
OnT:
Both N'Djamena and Sebha can accommodate a 330.
The investigation team from Airbus is already on location.
#200;
Never seen a so stupid Post
Has anybody charts (links) for landing at TIP ?
What one think is a stupid post can be important to someone else. Asking WHO worked on board could maybe have qualified for a comment.
If you had read the thread you participate in from the beginning, the link for the charts was already at page 3 (#53).
OnT:
Both N'Djamena and Sebha can accommodate a 330.
The investigation team from Airbus is already on location.
Last edited by swedflyer; 13th May 2010 at 15:09.
A330first-officer;
Was this just issued post-accident and would you have wording or a source of this info? Thanks.
PJ2
Airbus sent to all types operators an urgent advisory regarding the STALL RECOVERY PROCEDURE:
PJ2
@sharksandwich (Post #133):
Sorry but the A330 being an unsafe Airplane compared to other planes like the B737 is definitely nonsense.
If you take the number of hull losses and set in relation to the Number of Planes in Service or accumulated Flighthours you would find that it is indeed a very safe Airliner.
I recommend reading for Example Aviation-Safety.net or similar pages before posting such unsubstantiated things !
Sorry but the A330 being an unsafe Airplane compared to other planes like the B737 is definitely nonsense.
If you take the number of hull losses and set in relation to the Number of Planes in Service or accumulated Flighthours you would find that it is indeed a very safe Airliner.
I recommend reading for Example Aviation-Safety.net or similar pages before posting such unsubstantiated things !
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I've read this entire thread and am still vexed.
Winds are light and variable.
The runway is 3600 meters (11,800ft) long
9 has an NDB
27 has an ILS
it is early morning and an non-precision approach has you looking into the sun.
SO, why does this crew elect to conduct a non-precision approach into the sun and not opt for an ILS facing away from the sun?
Winds are light and variable.
The runway is 3600 meters (11,800ft) long
9 has an NDB
27 has an ILS
it is early morning and an non-precision approach has you looking into the sun.
SO, why does this crew elect to conduct a non-precision approach into the sun and not opt for an ILS facing away from the sun?
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Airbus sent to all types operators an urgent advisory regarding the STALL RECOVERY PROCEDURE: