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Open skies or back to government support.

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Open skies or back to government support.

Old 17th Apr 2010, 19:45
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Open skies or back to government support.

On Dutch teletext just found that the Dutch unions are looking for support to KLM to get through this mess. Who's there for us LCC employees when times are bad? What happened to Open Skies and no government support? Sorry to sound harsh, but are there no other ways for this company to get through something like this?
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 20:10
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Hi,

No one of the EU governements can act on his own .. and certainly not about a financial support.
They are bonded to the EU council decisions
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 20:27
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We bailed out those crooks in the city, what could be wrong with giving the airlines a bit of help?
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 20:40
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We bailed out those crooks in the city...
A big mistake.

....what could be wrong with giving the airlines a bit of help?
Making the same mistake, twice, is not such a good idea.

Why do most airlines fall on hard times?
Marketing decisions, mostly and....the poor company management that goes with it.
Outragious salaries paid to these management types, together with poor overall accountability.
Add to this the top heavy salaries paid to many cabin crew (BA is a perfect example) and general poor cost accounting.

Of course, there are a few airlines who have seemed to weather the storm successfully, in Europe, Ryanair, in the USA, Southwest.


Continental Airlines is also is in this group, thanks largly to the cost containment policies instituted by...Frank Lorenzo, long ago.

IF an airline is poorly run, it deserves to fail, just like any company.
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 20:41
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Surely not the so called 'Low Cost' airlines who have done us all so proud in driving aviation down to the lowest common denominator?
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 20:48
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IF an airline is poorly run, it deserves to fail, just like any company
True, but that's not what we are talking about here.

We have pretty much the whole of commercial aviation in Europe grounded for the predictable future down to an act of nature, rather than poor management. Of course if this goes on long enough, in extremis, without Government support we could see the decimation of the European industry..all of it. Somebody would probably fill the shorthaul niche but that would leaving the US Carriers picking up the Atlantic traffic and the African carriers to fill that void and the............oh yeah,I get it
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Old 17th Apr 2010, 21:07
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Who should be there for you LCC drivers?
Call your union. None available check with your P2F bi...es.
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 10:30
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Ryanair will be fine, they'll get help from BALPA . . . . oh i forgot they voted not to have any.
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 11:55
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We bailed out those crooks in the city, what could be wrong with giving the airlines a bit of help?
The money they would use to bail out the airlines has already been spent bailing out the crooks in the city.

[topgun]What was the name of that truck driving school.......?[/topgun]
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 12:10
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BALPA will loose all their subscriptions. Not enough left for hampers for members.
 
Old 18th Apr 2010, 12:13
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as if it's only the airlines in trouble from this event. What about the travel agencies? The airports themselves.... they aren't getting any landing fees turned in, perhaps only parking fees? And all the other airport related businesses? Bail ALL of them out?
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 13:49
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[topgun]What was the name of that truck driving school.......?[/topgun]
Truckmaster, I think it was....I think I'm gonna need that.
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 14:47
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as if it's only the airlines in trouble from this event. What about the travel agencies? The airports themselves.... they aren't getting any landing fees turned in, perhaps only parking fees? And all the other airport related businesses? Bail ALL of them out?
and don't forget those poor heavily leaveragerd privatised ANSPs

the irony of Labour "our skies are not for sale" having to re-nationalise before handing the reigns of power back
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:06
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Why would the Dutch government bail out a French company or is that allowed under EU rules?
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:13
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Why would the EU bail out Greece - the whole economy is on a knife edge yet again......double dip recession here we come
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:27
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Post A mouse farted.

Surely not the so called 'Low Cost' airlines who have done us all so proud in driving aviation down to the lowest common denominator?
Hello Mouse Droppings. By "lowest common denominator", do you mean by seizing and maintaining dominance in a ruthlessly competitive market by offering consumers a more affordable product whilst creating highly paid, secure flying jobs for thousands along the way, who otherwise wouldn't have them? That common denominator?

Adapt or Perish, you mischievous little rodent.
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 19:05
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Holy crap, I approve of one of Leo's posts
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 19:31
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It would surely by in the government's interest to support the industry if it looks like its going to go properly on its arse. The amount of tax reciepts lost by letting carriers fail would be phenomenal.

Now, which carriers would/should be supported? Discuss.....
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 19:46
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Wonder how many of the recent strikers still think it was a good idea to put a little financial pressure on their employers?
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Old 18th Apr 2010, 20:12
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411A,


The reason Continental is still around has nothing to do with Frank Lorenzo.



As an Airline manager, Lorenzo was useless, his 'forte' if you like to call it that, was the art of the leveraged buyout, just like Icahn.


He was in the business for personal financial reward and the ego boost he achieved by briefly operating the largest Airline in the world under the Texas Air umbrella.


This included, Continental, New York Air, Frontier, People Express and Eastern Airlines.



Eastern had major problems before Frank it's true but a talented CEO with good people skills might have stood a chance at turning them around. Frank had neither, so he simply used Eastern as a source of Aircraft for Continental while allowing them to fail.



Lorenzo threw this collection of Airlines together with no clue or interest on how to make the merged entity function. Operations suffered as he refused to spend adequately on maintenance or funding of any of the other myriad support functions required to operate successfully.


His attitude was just, 'make it work' without providing the resources or management skills to do so. He did not 'set up Continental with a low cost base' he drove us into the ground with his incompetent management and lack of funding, this he diverted to his own pockets.



It took another bankruptcy and the arrival of a new management team under Gordon Bethune to turn Continental around and provide a real base for our future success.



In the meantime, Lorenzo, one of the most despised figures in Aviation history (and rightfully so) was banned for life from being in any management position in an Airline by Congress


That action truly was an Aviation first.

Last edited by stilton; 18th Apr 2010 at 21:34.
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