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Cathay News

Old 16th Jul 2001, 02:37
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Post Cathay News

This is an open letter to all pilots seeking employment with Cathay Pacific.

Please pass this on if you know of anyone currently considering Cathay. Please read carefully if this applies to you. My apologies for the length of this letter but you must be aware of the implications of pursuing Cathay at this time.

Cathay Pacific is now in an industrial dispute with its aircrew. The aircrew are negotiating through the Hong Kong Aircrew association (HKAOA). The association represents approximately 87% of the aircrew at Cathay Pacific. The current dispute is over our next contract. That contract will expire this year for some and next for others. The expiring contract was forced upon the aircrew in 1999. The choice was sign and accept lesser terms of employment or to be fired. In protest there was a mass sick out. However management prevailed and the contract was enforced. In order to slow the current negotiations down the management has not allowed the AOA negotiators to have the required time off, have set long timetables, and refused to release employment and financial data to the AOA so that they might submit realistic proposals. The current negotiations are meant to solve both the rostering and monetary issues. At this time we do not have any control over the roster. There is no overtime. There is no extra pay for extra work. You can be on the road for 22 days a month, with only 2 or 3 days in between. There are three pay scales, within which there are many differing conditions of service and benefits, and our retirement scheme will not last more than a few years after retirement. On all of these issues the company has remained hard lined and unwilling to compromise.

This brings us to where we are today and why it affects you the interview candidate so directly. As of July 1st in an effort to put pressure on management to negotiate fairly and timely, an incremental step was taken in our contract compliance. As you may or may not know we have been following contract compliance for a year and a half. That means we are working to the letter of our contracts and no more. Hardly seems like a problem until you realize that 10 to 15% of the roster is covered by unpaid overtime. So our next step has been a campaign called "Maximum safety ". This means that we read all the notices we are required, do not rush preparations, and do our job to the safest level. As a result every flight will encounter delays, as there is insufficient time allotted for these tasks. If this does not sound like a big threat you will be surprised that the company’s reaction was so harsh. The company has elected to react in a disproportional manner and have fired 52 pilots. They have chosen Captains and First officers associated with the AOA as well as outspoken or critical members. Not one of these terminations would be legal in North America. There is the threat of continued firing until we the AOA submit.

So that brings us up to date. If you are in the interview pipeline, it is unfortunate timing. If you were to join Cathay now you would be replacing union members who were fired for their union affiliations. I cannot tell you what the ramifications may be, but it will affect your long-term outlook at Cathay. I regret that it must be this way, I regret that our company has decided to wage war on our pilots, and I regret that you will not be able to take advantage of what may seem like a good opportunity. So please put off any interviews, and put off any job offers, until this dispute is over, until our 52 comrades are reinstated. Then and only then will you join a company worth giving your life to, and only then can you join in good conscience.

Thank you for your time

At war in Hong Kong
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 10:52
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cxwannabe - I personally think your open letter is a little extreme. Is it official AOA policy? I also suspect it is a move your management have well predicted and would turn it around against the union.

Anyone who has accepted an interview is not accepting a job offer - he hasn't even made it through the interview process. Surely he has the right to listen to the company line at least?

Any new recruit is also a potential AOA member.

Simply turning up to an interview is not going to replace anyone's job - yet.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 11:20
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I'd had to concur with mcdude. Although I can see that the union would do anything to reinstate their buddies. the end of the day, without wanting to exploit the misery of fellow pilots, I'd sing on give the chance.

Non-the less I wish all AOA members the best of luck. Hag in there!
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 12:08
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Red face

Sorry chaps. Any pilot that goes for an interview before this dispute is settled is potentially replacing a pilot that was fired for NO GOOD REASON.

Anybody with half a conscience would put off any dealings with a company that treats its employees in such a cavalier way. At least until a satisfactory outcome is achieved.

Cxwannabee, good luck with your campaign.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 12:27
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Why would any one want to rejoin a company that treats you unfairly and fires employees for no good reason. It would make sense working elsewhere where you are treated humanely for less pay.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 13:44
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An interview is just that so no problem surely in continuing what can be a long process.
Instead of wasting your time making idle threats here you CX wannabes ought to either do something about your sacked colleagues or give up. The company are reinstating services and look like they are winning.
You don't look very tough so far.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 19:36
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I think it would be a rare person indeed who would turn down a job offer from Cathay - regardless of the the circumstances. The kind of threats posted by CXwannabe don't help the sacked pilots and wouldn't effect most peoples decision whether to join Cathay or not.

Even the revised contracts offered by Cathay far outweigh anything on offer in Europe so, cxwannabe, whilst we all no doubt feel sorry for the sacked pilots, I'm afraid you're dreaming if you think those pilots who are lucky enough to be in the frame for a job offer with Cathay are going to turn it down just because you tell them to.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 19:56
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"Not one of these sackings would be legal in North America"...

Quite true, I think what they would best be defined as is brilliant sackings, correct sackings, and your-move-next, brother-sackings....

And by the way, next time you meet a Party member from Beijing ask him how close he feels to North America.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 22:27
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Well at least this time you kept the threats and name-calling from your post good on is a very bad situation down there now, the nightmare of any expat/contract pilot, as we all are...we are not in north america, we are expats...outsiders if you the same end, we may not expect the level of protection, negotiating power an employee of a unionized north american carrier enjoys..a pilot in north america for a non-union carrier could possibly find him/herself in the very situation you are experiencing in the harbour many already is unfair to ask potential cx employees to take into consideration the jobs of people who were willing to place that very job in jeopardy by taking action against their employer, regardless of how unfair the situation..if someone sees the current situation in HKG and is willing to accept employment there, then they most surely should expect more of the same down the road....
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 22:47
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Threats and name calling....hmmmm ironbutt57, just refresh our memories why you were thrown off the site not sooo long ago?
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 23:04
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mmmmmmm me thinks that the resposes here are not good, seen it all in 89, I think you should stay out of something you dont understand.
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Old 16th Jul 2001, 23:34
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Wow, Ironbutt, does that kind of twisted logic flow naturally or do you have to work at it? The between-the-lines message for all potential CX employees is "do you want to work for an employer who can sakc its staff at will?"

They are not on strike they are working to rule, and CX management singled out whom they wished to fire.

You are welcome to that, but anyone who takes a job with them before the 'dispute' is settled does so knowing that they are a/ weakening the negotiating posotion of their prospective colleagues, and b/ playing into the hands of a cynical, manipulative mangement with no regard for the airline's wellbeing but every regard for their own position before leaving Hong Kong and moving elsewhere.

Your call. I'd would never accept a job with a company in dispute, no matter how tempting. But then, that's called principles.
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Old 17th Jul 2001, 11:17
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"assumed control"? wow would hate to see what happens when you lose it..twisted logic, just the facts as we see it
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Old 17th Jul 2001, 12:45
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Alien Shores

As long as friends of Mr Peart are around, the voice of balance and reason will always be heard. Must Rush!

From another poet. W.
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Old 18th Jul 2001, 18:50
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CX Wannabe - I do agree that I should walk away from years worth of study and self sacrifice and return to my job that pays about 0ne third of a Cathay SO salary so that you may get out of bed every morning and go fly your four engine jet. (not)

(if you do really fly for CX and not just trying to get rid of the opposition.)
Do not get lost in your world of delusionary self importance.
Correct me if I am wrong but all of those unfortunate fellows sacked were captains or FOs. Then perhaps you should look at currently employed pilots at CX refusing promotion to fill those gaps and leave struggling GA pilots alone.
OOPS..... that might include you now.
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Old 18th Jul 2001, 21:58
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I'm not a pilot with CX...

Anybody interested in a pos. with CX, please read Alien Shores reply a couple of times before joining during the dispute.

As a couple of people have already said, you're not going to be a "scab" by definition, but...

I know a bunch of people who regret a simple and attractive move they did many moons ago that have limit their field of work immensely.

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Old 20th Jul 2001, 14:59
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I don't want to upset anyone here but I think it's time to stop the bullsh!t. I am in the CX interview system right now and have NO INTENTION of refusing,putting off,stalling or whatever other words you like to call it to satisfy the HKAOA in its march towards self destruction. I witnessed the pilots strike in Oz in '89 and a couple of my mates (both with AN) will never ever get back into aviation because of the faith they put into the AFAP and where are the AFAP now? Don't get me wrong I don't hate unions but they are not going to run my life and career opportunities. I still owe my folks a lot of money for my flying lessons and am not going to be able to repay it on my present salary and paying Oz tax.
I don't like the company I work for at present and have been trying to secure employment elsewhere for sometime now. Have finally got the break and am not going to sacrifice it. Sorry, but you have to get a life sometimes and be thankful for good money and even C scalers are on bloody good dough with Cathay.
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Old 20th Jul 2001, 15:55
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From one who did 15yrs in CX from the good times to the now terrible state of affairs, be warned!! It was brilliant, it knocked spots of the rest but the winds of unscrupulous change have been blowing for 8 years now. I hear what is said but thank goodness I am out of it now. My commiserations to those who have principles and morals and have been fired as there is none in the leaders of CX these days. Be warned IT IS NOT A HAPPY PLACE TO WORK AT ANYMORE, unfortunatly.
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Old 20th Jul 2001, 18:33
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Truth Seeker (...more like, blind to the truth). Be forewarned. If you join this airline prior to the 50+ sacked aircrew getting their places WILL find yourself enduring a VERY miserable career (a short one no doubt). We are fighting for our professional lives, and the restoration of our professional standing. People who come on board now will be seen as undermining the risk and effort of ALL 1400 of the presently employed crew. We will NOT tolerate ANYONE seeking to make our lives even MORE difficult than they already are.

It is not a question of you choosing to work for CX. It is ONLY a question of being seen to put at risk the return of our 50+ colleagues and friends (not to mention the welfare of their families). If you want to join this sad outfit....fine, WAIT until our colleagues are back at work. To join now will PROVE to be the BIGGEST mistake of your obviously young and new career. This profession is constantly being undermined and devalued by people such as yourself who put expedience ahead of morals. We have VERY LONG memories, and we will NOT forget who the individuals are who join during this time. You have been warned.
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Old 20th Jul 2001, 18:43
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Truth Seeker. You mention the 'HKAOA march to destruction'. That shows how little you understand the situation. The AOA is doing NOTHING other than working to the letter of the company ops manuals. That withdrawal of goodwill is enough to bring this shambles to a halt. Even that legal and reasonable job-action was enough for the venal management of CX to sack 50+ crew. Why would you want to work for a mob who can destroy peoples career and families because of something you are LEGALLY doing...?

My point is this. It is YOU who would be marching to professional destruction if you join this company during this dispute. We will be completely and utterly unaccepting of anyone who joins before this is settled. I think you need to contemplate what it will be like being TOTALLY ostracised and ignored on EVERY trip you do. We will have the list....every one of us....and we WILL make sure that you are aware EACH AND EVERY TIME you come to work that we hold you in the highest contempt.

We are fighting for 50+ friends and colleagues. We know their families, their children. We will NOT abandon them. If you are to arrive putting them at will deserve all the misery that will surely follow your every day at CX. Wait until this is over...then join. Not a day before.
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