Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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Hi Whipper. Yeah fair comment, the RAF is under funded and stretched. But where does their funding come from. How many billions will be lost in tax collections over this period. I am sure they can risk a couple of Tornado engines. And its only that, a risk, its not certain that they would go up and wreck some engines. I have not caught up with other posts, but before someone has a go for risking a RAF pilots life......they are big boys and gals, when they signed on the knew they would be doing dangerous things. Trust me the nations finest take much bigger risks in Afganistan on a daily basis than what they would face on a jolly over Scotland.
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Hi
I am a layman, simply interested in this news. I get my kicks on Flight Simulator!
Obviously my heart goes out to all air personnel affected by this indefinite problem.
Anyway, all I wanted to say is that, even if the ash dispersed NOW, no-one seems to have thought about the dust accumulation on runways/aprons etc, which will surely get hoovered into the engines?
Also the dust resting on parked-up aircraft?
I am a layman, simply interested in this news. I get my kicks on Flight Simulator!
Obviously my heart goes out to all air personnel affected by this indefinite problem.
Anyway, all I wanted to say is that, even if the ash dispersed NOW, no-one seems to have thought about the dust accumulation on runways/aprons etc, which will surely get hoovered into the engines?
Also the dust resting on parked-up aircraft?
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No Special VFR Traffic allowed in Class A?!
On what grounds is all traffic excluded from Class A. No Special VFR to cross Class A around Heathrow. Not safety as they allow GA over Gatwick, Luton and Stansted. (I Know it's Class D)
Controllers must be very bored!!
Is this a bureaucratic anomaly? I understand Class A is IFR rule - but - No Special VFR or Helicopter Flights?!
Controllers must be very bored!!
Is this a bureaucratic anomaly? I understand Class A is IFR rule - but - No Special VFR or Helicopter Flights?!
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This airspace closure is really getting out of bounds with all notion of common sense...
Mad Cow, CJD - five deaths, we're all going to die, run for the hills.
Bird flu - one death in Hong Kong, we're all going to die, run for the hills.
Foot and Mouth - three people have mouth ulcers - burn them, burn them all, burn every cow in the land (and preferably the farmers too, 'cos they vote Tory anyway).
Swine flu - someone has a snivel, we're all going to die, run for the hills. Order 300 million Tamiflus and 500 million vaccines (from my mate's pharmaceutical company, of course).
Economy overheating - what's the problem? This is normal growth.
Global Warming - arrgghh, let's close down all UK industry, just in case. Yeah, yeah, so this is the coldest winter in 30 years, Arctic ice is recovering and Antarctic ice is at is highest ever extent - but we have to be cautious.
Economy crashing - it was the American's fault, selling houses to poor people.
Gordon make a rational decision? Not likely.
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over reaction
When Mnt St Helens erupted, the ash went around the globe and affected the weather for 2 years but there were not similar restrictions. I understand the BA 747 Flight 9 flew into a thick cloud of ash – rather than the diluted CAVOK conditions we have today.
If 1ppm (or whatever) is enough to shut down all airspace, then the situation will continue for months or a year – because that ash will remain in the northern hemisphere.
Volcanos have erupted before and this action has not been taken before. I am unaware of any incidents except of those flying directly into dense cloud.
It is getting ridiculous. Airfreight is not moving. Airlines will go bust. People will lose their jobs. People will go bankrupt as their bank balances & credit card credit disappears and up to 1 million people will not be able to vote in the election.
If 1ppm (or whatever) is enough to shut down all airspace, then the situation will continue for months or a year – because that ash will remain in the northern hemisphere.
Volcanos have erupted before and this action has not been taken before. I am unaware of any incidents except of those flying directly into dense cloud.
It is getting ridiculous. Airfreight is not moving. Airlines will go bust. People will lose their jobs. People will go bankrupt as their bank balances & credit card credit disappears and up to 1 million people will not be able to vote in the election.
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The Simple Solution
Listen folks, I have the solution.........
All the private pilots are still flying in PISTON engined aeroplanes, so come on Air Atlantique, get them out, let's get back to nostalgia and start operating all the old piston engined airliners
All the private pilots are still flying in PISTON engined aeroplanes, so come on Air Atlantique, get them out, let's get back to nostalgia and start operating all the old piston engined airliners
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@ ifly:
There are considerations beyond the freedom of GA to take advantage of the quiet skies.
These may well include public order issues, such as the risk of frustrated travellers rioting if they see someone else flying. No, they don't know the difference between GA and commercial aviation and acromyms such as "VFR" mean nothing to them. Think of it as like wartime rationing: the decision has to be seen to be fair, even to those with warped perception.
There are considerations beyond the freedom of GA to take advantage of the quiet skies.
These may well include public order issues, such as the risk of frustrated travellers rioting if they see someone else flying. No, they don't know the difference between GA and commercial aviation and acromyms such as "VFR" mean nothing to them. Think of it as like wartime rationing: the decision has to be seen to be fair, even to those with warped perception.
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Hi
I am a layman, simply interested in this news. I get my kicks on Flight Simulator!
Obviously my heart goes out to all air personnel affected by this indefinite problem.
Anyway, all I wanted to say is that, even if the ash dispersed NOW, no-one seems to have thought about the dust accumulation on runways/aprons etc, which will surely get hoovered into the engines?
Also the dust resting on parked-up aircraft?
I am a layman, simply interested in this news. I get my kicks on Flight Simulator!
Obviously my heart goes out to all air personnel affected by this indefinite problem.
Anyway, all I wanted to say is that, even if the ash dispersed NOW, no-one seems to have thought about the dust accumulation on runways/aprons etc, which will surely get hoovered into the engines?
Also the dust resting on parked-up aircraft?
edit: someone corrected me saying that there was some dust recorded somewhere in the UK. Oh well. I guess the crops will fail now, which is much worse than engines sucking up what's left.
Jim French of FLYBE on BBC breakfast tv/radio and DC8 ash damage pics
Jim French head of Flybe was interviewed this morning on BBC breakfast
tv and radio 5...
he said that pilots can see ash on their weather radar...really?
since when>?
mods can put this thread in jet blast if they see fit...
i think he is wrong about saying aircraft radar can see the ash clouds...the radar usually cannot.
normal clouds are made up of moisture which can be seen on weather radar.
that's the reason why NATS have stopped all flights.
the ash cannot be seen by a/c radar. and this ash is so difficult to see and is at different flight levels.
for he and other airlines, whilst i can sympathize with the financial losses incurred to all by the 'no-fly' i am amazed that he made these
comments to the general public. it's rather misleading and i think dubious and maybe careless.
BA009 20 years ago with their weather radar were unable to see any ash clouds over Java and lost all 4 engines.
Capt. Eric Moody said this only the other day and stated how dangerous the unseen threat can be,
Jim French maybe panicking about his cash flow but he is rather silly to tell the public this ban should
be relooked at too hastily and decisions to lift the travel ban made by bodies who bow to commercial pressure.
see here for some damage to a DC8 flying into ash 900 miles away from ash clouds
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/vol...8AshDamage.pdf
VOlcanic Ash Gives Jet Engine a Turbocharge : Discovery News
tv and radio 5...
he said that pilots can see ash on their weather radar...really?
since when>?
mods can put this thread in jet blast if they see fit...
i think he is wrong about saying aircraft radar can see the ash clouds...the radar usually cannot.
normal clouds are made up of moisture which can be seen on weather radar.
that's the reason why NATS have stopped all flights.
the ash cannot be seen by a/c radar. and this ash is so difficult to see and is at different flight levels.
for he and other airlines, whilst i can sympathize with the financial losses incurred to all by the 'no-fly' i am amazed that he made these
comments to the general public. it's rather misleading and i think dubious and maybe careless.
BA009 20 years ago with their weather radar were unable to see any ash clouds over Java and lost all 4 engines.
Capt. Eric Moody said this only the other day and stated how dangerous the unseen threat can be,
Jim French maybe panicking about his cash flow but he is rather silly to tell the public this ban should
be relooked at too hastily and decisions to lift the travel ban made by bodies who bow to commercial pressure.
see here for some damage to a DC8 flying into ash 900 miles away from ash clouds
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/vol...8AshDamage.pdf
VOlcanic Ash Gives Jet Engine a Turbocharge : Discovery News
Last edited by rog747; 19th Apr 2010 at 12:44. Reason: more
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Listening to Adonis on Radion 4 - seems to be some back-tracking and damage limitation (of the completely over the top knee jerk reaction) going on.
My opinion - unscientific as it is - (but it would appear no more unscientific than the 'authorities' one), is that the bird that flew over my house this morning constitutes a far greater hazard to aviation than the tiny concentration of ash particulates in the same sky. Don't know why MODs deleted my post putting that point across?
Feel free to prove that I'm wrong
My opinion - unscientific as it is - (but it would appear no more unscientific than the 'authorities' one), is that the bird that flew over my house this morning constitutes a far greater hazard to aviation than the tiny concentration of ash particulates in the same sky. Don't know why MODs deleted my post putting that point across?
Feel free to prove that I'm wrong
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All the private pilots are still flying in PISTON engined aeroplanes, so come on Air Atlantique, get them out, let's get back to nostalgia and start operating all the old piston engined airliners
Oh - no, no, no, Sunny Jim. Cannot have that. I see some ash build-up on your spark plugs.
You're grounded, mate.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Has anyone seen a definitive report on the BA747 engines and airframe? Assuming that they really did fly into dust-contaminated air (the reports of a climb to 40k leave me unimpressed with the stuff all below 20k!!) and also assuming that the jet went in for heavy maintenance, there should be some engine inspection results available.
