Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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you fly a 4-engine airframe around on two engines to conduct the research, and leave two engines for standby just in case
Surely a few of those old relics could be scared up into the air?
The damned things are little better than scrap, worth rather less actually 'cos they'll have to be broken up into small enough chunks to toss into the melting pot.
A few trips round the North Sea might make the old dinosaurs live again, if only for a week or so. So what if the engines become tired and shagged out after such a squawk?
It's far too good an idea to be taken up by their Airships in Main Building though.
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Perhaps some new announcement
Eurocontrol's tweeted page responded to a question with an implication that there could be some substantial changes tomorrow, allowing flights at lower altitude...
"that's a possibility we're looking into indeed more on this tomorrow morning!"
--Response to being asked if there was a chance of flights operating at lower altitude...
"that's a possibility we're looking into indeed more on this tomorrow morning!"
--Response to being asked if there was a chance of flights operating at lower altitude...
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The flight kl 705 will be inspected directly after landing.
(tonight he will come with results)
When nothing is wrong than flights can leave from far destinations on there journey to europe allready.
(tonight he will come with results)
When nothing is wrong than flights can leave from far destinations on there journey to europe allready.
he said that when this happens other airliners will start fly destination Schiphol tomorrow.
Seems that Hartman indeed has hot feet and is going for war........
Seems that Hartman indeed has hot feet and is going for war........
Now I know to avoid KLM in the next few months, until the delayed effects of those flights through ash clouds start to show up. Obviously KLM does have its top priority, but it doesn't appear to be safety.
Heard LH went up to FL240 on their ten ferries from Munich to Frankfurt today. No damage found.
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Will he be putting himself and his family and children on those aircraft in order to demonstrate his confidence in the safety of their flights?
I believe Hartman WAS on the test flight; and in order to get to FL410, he needed to make 2 passes through the ash, one on climb, one on descent... As could be done by other aircraft, if proved safe.
I believe Hartman WAS on the test flight; and in order to get to FL410, he needed to make 2 passes through the ash, one on climb, one on descent... As could be done by other aircraft, if proved safe.
I Have Control
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Cowardly bureaucrats.
Good for Hartman. As for the "authorities" closing airspace before checking any evidence, the word "cowardice" springs to mind.
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Last News
Ash may hover for days over uncertain Europe
By SYLVIA HUI and ANGELA CHARLTON (AP) – 35 minutes ago
PARIS — The Icelandic volcano that has kept much of Europe land-bound is far from finished spitting out its grit, and offered up new mini-eruptions Saturday that raise concerns about longer-term damage to world air travel and trade.
Facing days to come under the volcano's unpredictable, ashy plume, Europeans are looking at temporary airport layoffs and getting creative with flight patterns to try to weather this extraordinary event.
Modern Europe has never seen such a travel disruption. Air space across a swath from Britain to Ukraine was closed and set to stay that way until Sunday or Monday in some countries, affecting airports from New Zealand to San Francisco. Millions of passengers have had plans foiled or delayed.
Activity in the volcano at the heart of this increased early Saturday, and showed no sign of abating.
"There doesn't seem to be an end in sight," Icelandic geologist Magnus Tumi Gudmundsson told The Associated Press on Saturday. "The activity has been quite vigorous overnight, causing the eruption column to grow."
Scientists say that because the volcano is situated below a glacial ice cap, the magma is being cooled quickly, causing explosions and plumes of grit that can be catastrophic to plane engines, depending on prevailing winds.
In Iceland, winds dragged the ashes over new farmland, to the southwest of the glacier, causing farmers to scramble to secure their cattle and board up windows.
With the sky blackened out and the wind driving a fine, sticky dust, dairy farmer Berglind Hilmarsdottir teamed up with neighbors to round her animals and get them to shelter. The ash is toxic — the fluoride causes long-term bone damage that makes teeth fall out and bones break.
"This is bad. There are no words for it," said Hilmarsdottir, whose pastures near the town of Skogar were already covered in a gray paste of ash.
Forecasters say light prevailing winds in Europe — and large amounts of unmelted glacial ice above the volcano — mean that the situation is unlikely to change quickly.
"Currently the U.K. and much of Europe is under the influence of high pressure, which means winds are relatively light and the dispersal of the cloud is slow," said Graeme Leitch, a meteorologist at Britain's National Weather Service. "We don't expect a great deal of change over the next few days."
A Dutch geologist who is in Iceland observing the volcano, Edwin Zanen, described it to Dutch state broadcaster NOS:
"We're at 25 kilometers (16 miles) distance from the crater now. We're looking at a sun-soaked ice shelf, and above it is looming a cloud of ashes of oh, 4 to 5 kilometers (2.5 to 3 miles) high. There are lightening flashes in it. It's a real inferno we're looking at.
"There's absolutely no sign that the thing is calming down. On the contrary, we can see that at this moment it's extraordinarily active," he said.
With the prospect of days under the cloud of ash, pilots and aviation officials sought to dodge the dangerous grit by adjusting altitude levels.
Germany's airspace ban allows for low-level flights to go ahead under so-called visual flight rules, in which pilots don't rely on their instruments.
Lufthansa took advantage of that to fly 10 empty planes to Frankfurt from Munich on Saturday in order to have them in the right place when the restrictions are lifted, airline spokesman Wolfgang Weber said.
The planes flew at about 3,000 meters (9,843 feet) — well below their usual altitude — in close coordination with air traffic control.
KLM is carrying out a test flight from Schiphol to Dusseldorf at 3,000 meters or lower, hoping for approval to carry out more low-altitude flights in Europe if the ash problem continues.
The Swiss looked the other direction — above the ash cloud. The Swiss Federal Office of Civil Aviation began allowing flights Saturday above Swiss air space as long as the aircraft were at least at 36,000 feet (11,000 meters). It also allowed flights at lower altitudes under visual flight rules, aimed at small, private aircraft.
The Associated Press: Ash may hover for days over uncertain Europe
By SYLVIA HUI and ANGELA CHARLTON (AP) – 35 minutes ago
PARIS — The Icelandic volcano that has kept much of Europe land-bound is far from finished spitting out its grit, and offered up new mini-eruptions Saturday that raise concerns about longer-term damage to world air travel and trade.
Facing days to come under the volcano's unpredictable, ashy plume, Europeans are looking at temporary airport layoffs and getting creative with flight patterns to try to weather this extraordinary event.
Modern Europe has never seen such a travel disruption. Air space across a swath from Britain to Ukraine was closed and set to stay that way until Sunday or Monday in some countries, affecting airports from New Zealand to San Francisco. Millions of passengers have had plans foiled or delayed.
Activity in the volcano at the heart of this increased early Saturday, and showed no sign of abating.
"There doesn't seem to be an end in sight," Icelandic geologist Magnus Tumi Gudmundsson told The Associated Press on Saturday. "The activity has been quite vigorous overnight, causing the eruption column to grow."
Scientists say that because the volcano is situated below a glacial ice cap, the magma is being cooled quickly, causing explosions and plumes of grit that can be catastrophic to plane engines, depending on prevailing winds.
In Iceland, winds dragged the ashes over new farmland, to the southwest of the glacier, causing farmers to scramble to secure their cattle and board up windows.
With the sky blackened out and the wind driving a fine, sticky dust, dairy farmer Berglind Hilmarsdottir teamed up with neighbors to round her animals and get them to shelter. The ash is toxic — the fluoride causes long-term bone damage that makes teeth fall out and bones break.
"This is bad. There are no words for it," said Hilmarsdottir, whose pastures near the town of Skogar were already covered in a gray paste of ash.
Forecasters say light prevailing winds in Europe — and large amounts of unmelted glacial ice above the volcano — mean that the situation is unlikely to change quickly.
"Currently the U.K. and much of Europe is under the influence of high pressure, which means winds are relatively light and the dispersal of the cloud is slow," said Graeme Leitch, a meteorologist at Britain's National Weather Service. "We don't expect a great deal of change over the next few days."
A Dutch geologist who is in Iceland observing the volcano, Edwin Zanen, described it to Dutch state broadcaster NOS:
"We're at 25 kilometers (16 miles) distance from the crater now. We're looking at a sun-soaked ice shelf, and above it is looming a cloud of ashes of oh, 4 to 5 kilometers (2.5 to 3 miles) high. There are lightening flashes in it. It's a real inferno we're looking at.
"There's absolutely no sign that the thing is calming down. On the contrary, we can see that at this moment it's extraordinarily active," he said.
With the prospect of days under the cloud of ash, pilots and aviation officials sought to dodge the dangerous grit by adjusting altitude levels.
Germany's airspace ban allows for low-level flights to go ahead under so-called visual flight rules, in which pilots don't rely on their instruments.
Lufthansa took advantage of that to fly 10 empty planes to Frankfurt from Munich on Saturday in order to have them in the right place when the restrictions are lifted, airline spokesman Wolfgang Weber said.
The planes flew at about 3,000 meters (9,843 feet) — well below their usual altitude — in close coordination with air traffic control.
KLM is carrying out a test flight from Schiphol to Dusseldorf at 3,000 meters or lower, hoping for approval to carry out more low-altitude flights in Europe if the ash problem continues.
The Swiss looked the other direction — above the ash cloud. The Swiss Federal Office of Civil Aviation began allowing flights Saturday above Swiss air space as long as the aircraft were at least at 36,000 feet (11,000 meters). It also allowed flights at lower altitudes under visual flight rules, aimed at small, private aircraft.
The Associated Press: Ash may hover for days over uncertain Europe
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Roy, I am sure they would have been called more than cowards had they not closed the airspace and a accident had occurred!! You said yourself there is a lack of evidence. I don't see how you can criticise someone for taking the safest course of action.
I hope we don't ever fly together as I don't want to appear to be a coward by doing the safe thing. I will leave the bravery to people like you.
As time goes on if (I think when to be honest) data emerges showing the ash cloud over the UK is dangerous I hope you apologise!
I hope we don't ever fly together as I don't want to appear to be a coward by doing the safe thing. I will leave the bravery to people like you.
As time goes on if (I think when to be honest) data emerges showing the ash cloud over the UK is dangerous I hope you apologise!
Last edited by one post only!; 17th Apr 2010 at 22:17.
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The volcanic ash cloud from Iceland is moving around and changing shape. Based on the latest information from the Met Office, NATS advises that the restrictions currently in place across UK controlled airspace will remain in place until at least 0700 (UK time) tomorrow, Sunday 18 April.
There may be some airspace available within Scotland, Northern Ireland and England north of Leeds up till 1900 (UK time) today, which may enable some domestic flights to operate under individual coordination with ATC. We will be coordinating this closely with airlines and airports. We would repeat, it is most unlikely that many flights will operate today and anyone hoping to travel should contact their airline before travelling to the airport. After 1900 (UK time) today, Met Office forecasts show the ash cloud progressively covering the whole of the UK.
We will continue to monitor Met Office information and review our arrangements in line with that. We will advise further arrangements at approximately 2100 (UK time), today.
There may be some airspace available within Scotland, Northern Ireland and England north of Leeds up till 1900 (UK time) today, which may enable some domestic flights to operate under individual coordination with ATC. We will be coordinating this closely with airlines and airports. We would repeat, it is most unlikely that many flights will operate today and anyone hoping to travel should contact their airline before travelling to the airport. After 1900 (UK time) today, Met Office forecasts show the ash cloud progressively covering the whole of the UK.
We will continue to monitor Met Office information and review our arrangements in line with that. We will advise further arrangements at approximately 2100 (UK time), today.
Accusing the authorities of cowardice?
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celandic volcano eruption
Last updated: 2000 on Saturday, 17 April 2010
The Eyjafjallajökull volcano is still erupting, and possibly intensifying, with the ash plume rising to 30,000 feet. Evidence of ash dust over the UK is being detected by Met Office observations and there are reports of dust reaching the ground.
The Met Office commissioned NERC research flight flew over the North Sea on Friday afternoon and detected 3 distinct layers of ash, from fine particles at low levels to large particles around 8,000 feet.
All these observations are consistent with our forecast plumes for where the ash cloud would spread and how it would mix through the atmosphere.
The Met Office is working closely with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and National Air Traffic Services (NATS), and because of the worsening volcanic activity UK airspace has now been closed until 1am Sunday. We continue to look for weather windows that will allow air space restrictions to be lifted.
We are also liaising with Health Protection Scotland and the Health Protection Agency and dust collected at Lerwick and Aberdeen has been analysed by Scottish Environment Protection Agency. Preliminary analysis has shown that the properties of the particles appear to be consistent with the properties of volcanic ash, but further more detailed analysis is being undertaken.
Decisions on flights and airline movement is controlled by NATS. The Met Office is unable to advise of any details of any flights. However, many airlines are providing information on their websites.
We will continue to produce forecasts of the ash cloud and will assess the impact over the weekend in consultations with CAA and NATS.
Last updated: 2000 on Saturday, 17 April 2010
The Eyjafjallajökull volcano is still erupting, and possibly intensifying, with the ash plume rising to 30,000 feet. Evidence of ash dust over the UK is being detected by Met Office observations and there are reports of dust reaching the ground.
The Met Office commissioned NERC research flight flew over the North Sea on Friday afternoon and detected 3 distinct layers of ash, from fine particles at low levels to large particles around 8,000 feet.
All these observations are consistent with our forecast plumes for where the ash cloud would spread and how it would mix through the atmosphere.
The Met Office is working closely with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and National Air Traffic Services (NATS), and because of the worsening volcanic activity UK airspace has now been closed until 1am Sunday. We continue to look for weather windows that will allow air space restrictions to be lifted.
We are also liaising with Health Protection Scotland and the Health Protection Agency and dust collected at Lerwick and Aberdeen has been analysed by Scottish Environment Protection Agency. Preliminary analysis has shown that the properties of the particles appear to be consistent with the properties of volcanic ash, but further more detailed analysis is being undertaken.
Decisions on flights and airline movement is controlled by NATS. The Met Office is unable to advise of any details of any flights. However, many airlines are providing information on their websites.
We will continue to produce forecasts of the ash cloud and will assess the impact over the weekend in consultations with CAA and NATS.
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Roy
Poland is curently in the process of burying 96 people that has been flown by the pilot who has not shown signs of 'cowardice' and landed where/when it has been deemed unsafe (unsuitable wx).
Poland is curently in the process of burying 96 people that has been flown by the pilot who has not shown signs of 'cowardice' and landed where/when it has been deemed unsafe (unsuitable wx).
Location, Location, Location
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It's called predictive analysis.
If the past observations show that there have been peaks in volcanic output every 8 hours since the eruption started then that frequency will be used to forecast future events.
If the past observations show that there have been peaks in volcanic output every 8 hours since the eruption started then that frequency will be used to forecast future events.
Location, Location, Location
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@feedback
I was only indicating the technique that may have been used; not commenting upon its' validity.
I'm with you; one should never try to second-guess Nature.
I was only indicating the technique that may have been used; not commenting upon its' validity.
I'm with you; one should never try to second-guess Nature.
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why is the flight at FL410 when all the ash is below?
Smoke and mirrors, without smoke or mirrors. Just showbiz.
Made for the media. Made to mislead. Made to deceive.
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celandic volcano eruption
10 miles West of LHR.
17th April 2010
Went outside this evening at at maybe 1915 and 2115 you could smell the ash at ground level.
In between and after that, no smell.
Clear sky, no funny sunset, and no effects on the visibility of the setting Moon.
But definately a smell of ash on two occasions this evening.
Second occasion, after sunset, was much stronger.
Probably a 'dump' of colder air as the thermals switched off.
Which makes me wonder - does the lower level ash fall out of the sky after sunset?
Thinks... no thermals to keep it up, condensation of water due to much lower temperature = fallout.
"but we had an ash cloud yesterday, and it lasted overnight"
Yes, but was it held up by an inversion layer?
Can we work around the ash cloud problem by only flying at night?
Question - would it be much safer to only fly at night?
I think it's time to send a test plane up overnight to test the theory.
At present we're pretty ignorant about the situation.
Let's learn.
17th April 2010
Went outside this evening at at maybe 1915 and 2115 you could smell the ash at ground level.
In between and after that, no smell.
Clear sky, no funny sunset, and no effects on the visibility of the setting Moon.
But definately a smell of ash on two occasions this evening.
Second occasion, after sunset, was much stronger.
Probably a 'dump' of colder air as the thermals switched off.
Which makes me wonder - does the lower level ash fall out of the sky after sunset?
Thinks... no thermals to keep it up, condensation of water due to much lower temperature = fallout.
"but we had an ash cloud yesterday, and it lasted overnight"
Yes, but was it held up by an inversion layer?
Can we work around the ash cloud problem by only flying at night?
Question - would it be much safer to only fly at night?
I think it's time to send a test plane up overnight to test the theory.
At present we're pretty ignorant about the situation.
Let's learn.