Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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I am hearing all kinds of complaints, very few solutions.
Could we perhaps have a sensible tech-log thread on what can be done now, and what should be done in the future, since it seems that this might be a fairly long-term problem.
I am surprised that the politicos have not jumped in to lead us through this catastrophy since this could hobble the fragile recovery.
Could we perhaps have a sensible tech-log thread on what can be done now, and what should be done in the future, since it seems that this might be a fairly long-term problem.
I am surprised that the politicos have not jumped in to lead us through this catastrophy since this could hobble the fragile recovery.
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latest from CFMU
Volcanic eruption of Icelandic volcano: Eyjafjallajokul.
Click here for a map of the forecast ash cloud issued:17-0600 UTC.
Next forecast to be published after 17-1200 UTC
Today (17-April) the ash cloud is extending.
Airspaces zero-rated/closed until:
(Aerodromes geographically located within these airspaces will be unavailable):
EB Belgium 17-1700
ED Germany 17-1200
EE Estonia 18-0000
EF Finland 18-0000
EG UK 18-0000
EH Netherlands 17-1800
EI Ireland 17-1800
EK Danmark 18-0000
EN Norway 17-1200
EP Poland 17-1800
ES Sweden 17-1800
LD Kroatia 18-0000
LFBB France Bordeaux 18-0000
LFEE France Reims 17-1800
LFFF France Paris 17-1800
LFMM France Marseille 17-1800
LFRR France Brest 17-1800
LH Hungary 17-1700
LI Italy 17-1200
LJ Slovenia 18-0000
LK Chech Republic 18-0000
LO Austria 17-1200
LR Roumania 17-2100
LS Swiss 17-1800
LY Serbia 18-0000
LZ Bratislava 18-0000
UK Ukraine 17-1500
Please note, these lists are not exhaustive.
AIRSPACE OPEN
please contact the FMP
concerned for more information
-Italy, Karlsruhe and Maastricht above FL355
The next general teleconference to review the latest VACC ash cloud forecast will be held at 1300 UTC.
(number of available lines = 400)
Telephone number: +32.2.289.5396
No IFR clearances will be issued that penetrate contaminated airspace.
Airborne aircraft planning to enter closed airspace should be prepared to divert to an alternate destination.
Click here for a map of the forecast ash cloud issued:17-0600 UTC.
Next forecast to be published after 17-1200 UTC
Today (17-April) the ash cloud is extending.
Airspaces zero-rated/closed until:
(Aerodromes geographically located within these airspaces will be unavailable):
EB Belgium 17-1700
ED Germany 17-1200
EE Estonia 18-0000
EF Finland 18-0000
EG UK 18-0000
EH Netherlands 17-1800
EI Ireland 17-1800
EK Danmark 18-0000
EN Norway 17-1200
EP Poland 17-1800
ES Sweden 17-1800
LD Kroatia 18-0000
LFBB France Bordeaux 18-0000
LFEE France Reims 17-1800
LFFF France Paris 17-1800
LFMM France Marseille 17-1800
LFRR France Brest 17-1800
LH Hungary 17-1700
LI Italy 17-1200
LJ Slovenia 18-0000
LK Chech Republic 18-0000
LO Austria 17-1200
LR Roumania 17-2100
LS Swiss 17-1800
LY Serbia 18-0000
LZ Bratislava 18-0000
UK Ukraine 17-1500
Please note, these lists are not exhaustive.
AIRSPACE OPEN
please contact the FMP
concerned for more information
-Italy, Karlsruhe and Maastricht above FL355
The next general teleconference to review the latest VACC ash cloud forecast will be held at 1300 UTC.
(number of available lines = 400)
Telephone number: +32.2.289.5396
No IFR clearances will be issued that penetrate contaminated airspace.
Airborne aircraft planning to enter closed airspace should be prepared to divert to an alternate destination.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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MPs?
Guys come on, what can an MP realistically do when dealing with a Volcano and the winds?
Don't you see that there is no human solution for now, we just need to be optimistic and wait.
Planes cannot fly in that ash. Full stop.
MPs can step in later on if the industry needs to be helped, drastic measures might be needed, even re-nationalisation of carriers in the worst case scenario.
All economies need aviation to survive and compete.
I agree that this is steadily becoming the biggest danger to aviation in history, 9/11 is peanuts compared to this event.
The most scary aspect is that the volcano is still very active, the area is active, and this event could carry on for many weeks if not months, and even if prevailing winds will change direction soon the problem will move somewhere else.
Don't you see that there is no human solution for now, we just need to be optimistic and wait.
Planes cannot fly in that ash. Full stop.
MPs can step in later on if the industry needs to be helped, drastic measures might be needed, even re-nationalisation of carriers in the worst case scenario.
All economies need aviation to survive and compete.
I agree that this is steadily becoming the biggest danger to aviation in history, 9/11 is peanuts compared to this event.
The most scary aspect is that the volcano is still very active, the area is active, and this event could carry on for many weeks if not months, and even if prevailing winds will change direction soon the problem will move somewhere else.
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<<does the no fly not restrict piston/light aircraft?>>
The only restriction on aviation is that ATC is not issuing clearances to IFR flights to enter controlled airspace within the contamintaion zone..
Outside controlled airspace aviation is not prohibited, but soooooo many posters on PPruNe don't seem to want to understand that.
The only restriction on aviation is that ATC is not issuing clearances to IFR flights to enter controlled airspace within the contamintaion zone..
Outside controlled airspace aviation is not prohibited, but soooooo many posters on PPruNe don't seem to want to understand that.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Doomed ! we're all Doomed ! !
Joking apart, and it actually isn't a joke, we really SHOULD be panicking Mr Mainwaring.
If, as seems reasonably likely, this bloody thing keeps erupting, and , as seems not improbable, the air flow remains NW for a few days/weeks,more, aviation , as we know it, is pretty much fecked over the N &W of Europe, with the South & E joining in PDQ by the look of things.
This is a much bigger threat than 9/11, cannot be manipulated /spun by the political lot (hence why, along with preening themselves for an election they are keeping pretty quiet) and no-one yet has any solution, or even action that might ameliorate the situation.
I don't actually want to imagine how many companies will be affected, but it can't be long before the perfect storm of no flights flown, and reduced revenue due to lack of bookings by a worried public, combined with fixed overheads such as leasing and wages (we like to hope
) and the need to make constant refunds for flights not flown (well lets see how long that lasts 
) can be sustained by many already financially fragile carriers. How long for example can even the mighty BA survive with the entire fleet idle ? Even MOL didn't look so chipper in an interview he gave on the Beeb, for once he didn't go into raving mode, I think with the greater part of 220 odd airframes idle he has already found the smell of coffee.
If nothing changes by the middle of the week, how many companies will we be discussing as having gone defunct this time next weekend ?
This is serious sh1t folks
Joking apart, and it actually isn't a joke, we really SHOULD be panicking Mr Mainwaring.
If, as seems reasonably likely, this bloody thing keeps erupting, and , as seems not improbable, the air flow remains NW for a few days/weeks,more, aviation , as we know it, is pretty much fecked over the N &W of Europe, with the South & E joining in PDQ by the look of things.
This is a much bigger threat than 9/11, cannot be manipulated /spun by the political lot (hence why, along with preening themselves for an election they are keeping pretty quiet) and no-one yet has any solution, or even action that might ameliorate the situation.
I don't actually want to imagine how many companies will be affected, but it can't be long before the perfect storm of no flights flown, and reduced revenue due to lack of bookings by a worried public, combined with fixed overheads such as leasing and wages (we like to hope
) and the need to make constant refunds for flights not flown (well lets see how long that lasts ) can be sustained by many already financially fragile carriers. How long for example can even the mighty BA survive with the entire fleet idle ? Even MOL didn't look so chipper in an interview he gave on the Beeb, for once he didn't go into raving mode, I think with the greater part of 220 odd airframes idle he has already found the smell of coffee.If nothing changes by the middle of the week, how many companies will we be discussing as having gone defunct this time next weekend ?
This is serious sh1t folks
.
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ICAO Experts Complain of Lack of Safe Ash Concentration Level.
Below is an extract from an ICAO experts meeting where it indicates that no one knows the safe level of ash concentration, and presumably no entity has funded serious research to determine this. Echos of icing and pitot tubes.
INTERNATIONAL AIRWAYS VOLCANO WATCH OPERATIONS GROUP (IAVWOPSG)
FOURTH MEETING
Paris, France, 15 to 19 September 2008
1.1 Secondly, the past paragraph of the workshop summary suggested that clear limits of ash content are required from both the manufacturers and aviation licensing authorities. This refers to an indisputably difficult and longstanding problem; that there is no defined lower limit on ash concentration. As remote sensing techniques improve, it is likely that the aggregate areas where ash is sensed or inferred will increase, possibly leading to over-warning for ash and cost-blowouts for airlines. It should be recognized that progress on this issue would considerably aid the future operation of the IAVW, including in relation to the development of future satellite sensors, dispersion modeling, eruption notification procedures, and so on.
1.2 The group may agree that this safe concentration of ash problem should properly be advanced in both IAVWOPSG and WMO fora, with scientific studies informing a decision-making process about the standards required from the warning system. As it has proven difficult to get formal aviation representation at science-focused workshops such as Rotorua, the input of the aviation industry to this problem might formally be sought through IAVWOPSG processes. A draft conclusion in this regard is given below.
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if you really want to go to Europe ...
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Helicopter across my skies 30 mins ago. Possibly heading to Cumbernauld, although from distance appeared larger, maybe enroute to PIK or GLA. First I've seen anything in the air for three days
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If this will continue for weeks it could even mean the beginning of a better less stressfull life for us all.
On the subject of the timeline for the eruption to continue the expert from the Met Office on the BBC did say whilst the eruption may continue for quite some time the nature of it may change if the water that is causing the explosive nature is all used up. Of course the problem is knowing how much water there is in the first place.
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Heathrow Director wrote:
Not only that, but the news people seem to be missing it as well. Since I was able to fly from Dundee to Cumbernauld yesterday, and back to Dundee later on, there seems no reason for telling the world that UK Airspace is closed. I can see how the big airlines might be suffering but the smaller operations ought to be making a bigger effort to publicise their availability in Scotland and the north of England.
<<does the no fly not restrict piston/light aircraft?>>
The only restriction on aviation is that ATC is not issuing clearances to IFR flights to enter controlled airspace within the contamintaion zone..
Outside controlled airspace aviation is not prohibited, but soooooo many posters on PPruNe don't seem to want to understand that.
The only restriction on aviation is that ATC is not issuing clearances to IFR flights to enter controlled airspace within the contamintaion zone..
Outside controlled airspace aviation is not prohibited, but soooooo many posters on PPruNe don't seem to want to understand that.
Bellwether&cloudbuster
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There are a few things that may come out of this:
Oil price drop. The demand for aviation fuel will be significantly reduced over these days and the demand in terms of quantity will not "make up" for what has been lost over the past few days.
Travel companies may do better - why? Because traditionally the time after Easter holidays is lower season and many aircraft are flying with low bums in seat ratio. If the holiday companies move those passengers to later in the year, then they get fuller aircraft and don't pay out for the fuel costs for the half empty flights..
Oil price drop. The demand for aviation fuel will be significantly reduced over these days and the demand in terms of quantity will not "make up" for what has been lost over the past few days.
Travel companies may do better - why? Because traditionally the time after Easter holidays is lower season and many aircraft are flying with low bums in seat ratio. If the holiday companies move those passengers to later in the year, then they get fuller aircraft and don't pay out for the fuel costs for the half empty flights..
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Are the airports being proactive at this point and using their downtime sensibly by getting ahaead of any upcoming scheduled repair work to runways, taxi ways etc? Any idea on how they are dealing with bird and wildlife populations who are no doubt using this time to set up home in our airports?
Also, I've noticed that the climatologists are being rather quiet, I'd imagine they are very busy monitoring the affect of such few movements over the UK.
This has been a rather interesting few days!
x
Also, I've noticed that the climatologists are being rather quiet, I'd imagine they are very busy monitoring the affect of such few movements over the UK.
This has been a rather interesting few days!
x
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Jersey Airport has been very busy with repairs on the taxiways and rw.
[Reported on Channel TV]
[Reported on Channel TV]
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Originally Posted by Re-Heat
One of the links on the thread suggested 5-20x denser than the plume that hit the NASA DC8.
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Just a thought, if BA have a Jumbo sitting in GLA will it be in a position to make a dash back across the pond to help with stranded pax should any lifting of restrictions in Scottish Airspace happen
A lot of capacity just sitting there, could drop off a few BFS/BHD/LDY pax stranded in Scotland on it's way
A lot of capacity just sitting there, could drop off a few BFS/BHD/LDY pax stranded in Scotland on it's way
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Live webcam of the cause......
Sorry if this has already been posted, a link to a live webcam overlooking the cause of it all:
Eyjafjallajökull frį Hvolsvelli
Eyjafjallajökull frį Hvolsvelli
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Isn't there some other alternatives for the major EU airlines to use their aircraft that is stuck in other countries to fly to other hubs/airports, just to get the pax that seriously needs to get to destinations on to european soil and moving? Ie:
BA should have quite few aircraft stuck elsewhere in the world (I think there is 5 in South Africa alone), can't they sort of fly to MAD at least?
LH to MXP or ZRH
AF/KLM to southern France (Nice, Marseille) (A380 stuck in JNB as well).
Would other carriers with major connecting hubs to Europe allow pax to reroute to southern european destinations...ie: say an EK ticket JNB-DXB-LHR change to JNB-DXB-ROM ...at least with pax from Asia/Oceania/Africa...this could be done by EK, QR, EY, TK, ET, KQ etc.
Would airlines like TP and IB be doing better business at the moment, with pax just trying to get to european soil at least and travel from there onwards by train/bus/taxi/transfer. Would other carriers be allowed to increase flights to these destinations not affected (yet) like MAD, LIS, ROM, NCE?
BA should have quite few aircraft stuck elsewhere in the world (I think there is 5 in South Africa alone), can't they sort of fly to MAD at least?
LH to MXP or ZRH
AF/KLM to southern France (Nice, Marseille) (A380 stuck in JNB as well).
Would other carriers with major connecting hubs to Europe allow pax to reroute to southern european destinations...ie: say an EK ticket JNB-DXB-LHR change to JNB-DXB-ROM ...at least with pax from Asia/Oceania/Africa...this could be done by EK, QR, EY, TK, ET, KQ etc.
Would airlines like TP and IB be doing better business at the moment, with pax just trying to get to european soil at least and travel from there onwards by train/bus/taxi/transfer. Would other carriers be allowed to increase flights to these destinations not affected (yet) like MAD, LIS, ROM, NCE?
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The Dornier research aircraft that flew from Cranfield yesterday reported THREE distinct layers of contaminants BELOW 10 Thousand feet!
Did anyone boroscope the Dornier afterwards, to see if the contaminants (at this concentration) did actually stick?
As an aside, a colleague reports that he has been banned from posting on this thread for being negative. The Mod said "pro comments only accepted on this thread". What kind of free-speech discussion is this?