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Ash clouds threaten air traffic

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Ash clouds threaten air traffic

Old 16th Apr 2010, 12:59
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There appears to have been more seismic activity around Eyjafjallajökull in the last hour. The following link compliments of the Iceland Meteorological Office who monitor earthquake activity there.

Earthquakes - Mýrdalsjökull

Probably means it isn't going to go away soon.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:17
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Cars in Bristol are looking exactly the same as TRC's picture and quite a few of my work colleagues are complaining of a metallic taste in their mouths all day.

I cannot believe that people think this is over-reacting, I am due out of BRS tomorrow and am perfectly happy not going. Much rather safe than very, very sorry.

I am also confused by the mention of 'fly around it', as the cloud is covering most of Northern Europe. It's a bit difficult to fly around it if your destination is directly beneath the cloud!
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:17
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A way back (this thread is building so fast I can't now find them) a couple of posters asked whether NATS was taking over the "decision process" from those normally in command of aircraft (pilots) and making fly / no-fly decisions.

The answer may very well be "yes" to that, but then it's worth remembering who owns NATS! Answer - the airlines. I would propose that it's much easier / acceptable in PR terms for the airlines to have NATS make a no-fly decision than make it themselves.

Rather than them (BA / Easy / Ryan etc) saying "it's not a good idea to fly due potential a/c damage / risk to humanity etc" surely it's easier to say "the authorities shut it down."

There's no implication in this that it's not the right decision, but in PR terms it's far, far easier for the carriers. I know - I worked as a PR man for 45 years (not in this industry tho')!
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:22
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Looks like Scandinavia will get a break on sunday but more coming in on monday afternoon.
Central Europe looks like will get a break on monday afternoon.

Forecast Animation AVI

From Norwegian Institute of Air Research
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:37
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You can certainly see it in Olso - pic from a friend who flies out of Gardemoen. Photo taken from Aker Brygge...

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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:40
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Alternatives? Air Ships of course! Can change intake filters in flight, sweep the envelope of any time {just means hanging over the side on a rope} I always knew jet aircraft were just a passing fad!
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:53
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NATS Update

Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Friday April 16, 1445

The cloud of volcanic ash continues to move south through the UK and the eruption in Iceland continues.

Following a review of the latest Met Office information, NATS advises that restrictions preventing flights in controlled airspace over England and Wales will remain in place until 0700 (UK time) tomorrow, Saturday 17 April, at the earliest. From 1900 (UK time) today ATC restrictions will be lifted in a large part of Scottish airspace including Scottish airports, Shetland, Orkneys and also Northern Ireland.

On this basis, North Atlantic traffic can also operate to/from points in this airspace. Please note these arrangements do not mean that all flights will operate. Anyone hoping to travel today or tomorrow should contact their airline before going to the airport.

We are looking for opportunities when the ash cloud moves sufficient for us to enable some flights to operate under individual coordination with ATC. Some aircraft were able to operate at Manchester this morning, although restrictions are now reapplied to Manchester.

We hope there may be some opportunity from the north into Newcastle after 0100 (UK time) tomorrow - Saturday. We will review further Met Office information and at 2030 (UK time) we will advise further arrangements. In general, the situation is dynamic and subject to change.

We continue to work closely with airports, airlines, and the rest of Europe to understand and mitigate the implications of the volcanic eruption.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 13:56
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Two questions;

I remember after Sept. 11th some in the US noted that the sky was more blue than normal due (it was claimed) to less airline traffic and hence less high level water vapor. Of course the dust will mask any such observation in the effected zones, however for those areas NOT effected but perhaps with much less air travel than normal, has anyone noted this same result?

Living in Seoul, we get yellow dust from China that seems much thicker and as high and extensive as it seems is being reported in the UK. It can be tasted, it leaves yellow dust on our cars, and it much reduces visibility to as low as one Km on occasion. It also seems that if RAF fighters is Iraq (reported earlier in thread) had issues, it should be an issue here also. I have however never heard/noted it being an aviation issue here. Is it? If not why not; under-reaction here or over-reaction in the UK/Europe?
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:03
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Of course the problem the authorities have now is how to backtrack without losing face when it becomes clear that the air travel situation cannot continue and some degree of normality must be resumed.

I still believe they over reacted, of course we cant fly through volcanic ash, as professional pilots we all know this and dont need it explaining to us.
Its not going to be up to pilots whether they fly through this - its an engineering decision and you obviously don't know or care about the the issue.

This is the damage to the engine a short flight in a f-18 Hornet incurred.







Hornetien moottorit tuhkassa - katso ilmavoimien kuvat | Uutiset | Iltalehti.fi

Airlines are not going to put their aircraft up in that no matter what.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:04
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ZRH - LSZH Zurich closed

Zürich closed 30 minutes ago until 0900uhr CET Saturday

Run this through Google translator

BAZL - Aschenwolke: Schweizer Luftraum aus Sicherheitsgrnden vorbergehend geschlossen

Whoa, this is so heavy...

Ah, I just saw Emirates depart, how did he do that?
And Aeroflot is ready as well...

Last edited by DCS99; 16th Apr 2010 at 14:23.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:05
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I was about to post that I thought VMC arrivals and departures not above 5,000 QNH might be a good idea with IFR plans being activated (or deactivated) outside the affected area.
Then I saw the pix of the crud that is beginning to settle on parked cars here and there across the UK and had second thoughts.
I would also venture a guess that modern ATC systems are very reliant on computer control. I bet they're not programed to cope with major changes to routine like low-level VFR departures and arrivals? Which might explain the sudden and complete shut-down when people are reporting clear skies in their neck of the woods.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:10
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Sky News reporter at Cranfield just been saying that a research plane (D228 D-CALM) will shortly be taking off to fly over east of England to try & measure the extent of the ash cloud.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:16
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Can we put the 'over reaction', 'Backtracking', 'I can't see any dust' posts to bed please?

ATCOs, and ANSPs are not allowed to give IFR clearances into areas where Volcanic Ash activity is forecast. End of.

They come about this information from the met office and vulcanologists. It is updated every 6 hours and everyone is briefed - any less time is unreasonable to expect decent data, or for airlines and passengers to be given notice that their flight will be OK.

There may well be some scope for flights to fly VFR below then climb IFR when clear of the forecast areas... However that implies a willingness by the airlines to fly under any area affected with Ash Cloud (remember gravity anyone) and also the willingness of airlines to burn lots of extra fuel in doing so.

Just why would airlines, who are struggling already, want to operate a flight originating from under a risk area using methods that are going to decimate most if not all profit on marginal profit routes?

These airlines are the same ones that took such measures as reducing in-flight magazine sizes etc in a bid to reduce weight and therefore fuel burn.

As someone said much earlier, the usually vocal CEOs of certain LoCo airlines are not uttering any complaints about what is happening... that is telling in itself.

This action may well be overkill - but unless you can say for certain, would you take the risk if you did not have to?
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:18
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IRELAND

Does we think in here as a collective that airlines in the States may try and get as far as at least SNN/DUB/BFS/GLA especially BA etc to get the fleet home so to speak??, as these airports or at least the airspace appear now to be open ??
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:19
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Its not going to be up to pilots whether they fly through this - its an engineering decision and you obviously don't know or care about the the issue. This is the damage to the engine a short flight in a f-18 Hornet incurred.
Peter we, As an expert on volcanic ash damage to engines could you please explain precisely what we are looking at. Before and after pictures would be useful.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:19
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Just to correct 2 bits of mis-information:
1) NATS have not 'closed' the whole of UK airspace; the CAA have directed NATS that IFR clearances are not to be issued thus effectively denying the use of class A airspace.(this includes class A CTRs where SVFR clearances are also not permitted)
2) In other airspace classifications, you can (and indeed many aircraft are) still fly VFR but the CAA have directed units providing ATSOCAs in class G airspace that services relying on radar are not to be provided.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:25
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D-CALM research flight into the Ash cloud...

Yes I see what you mean mixture!

*Departed Cranfield at 16.00 local & expected to be airborne for 3 to 4 hours. Data will then be passed on to the Met Office in Exeter for analysis.

Here's some more information about D-CALM on this link: NERC Airborne Research and Survey Facility - Aircraft

Last edited by ChalfontFlyer; 16th Apr 2010 at 15:11. Reason: *Additional information
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:28
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@TeachMe

As far as I know the reason for that is that average sand only melts at temperature's above 1300/1400 degrees celcius , and vulcanis ashes usually around 500/600 celcius
Average TIT is around 850 celcius , so big engine trouble
Sand usually gives a lot of 'mechanical'damage to windscreens , a/c packs etc. , but the real killer is vulcanic ash , even in less dense properties.
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:31
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GE issued a statement about volcanic ash and engines
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Old 16th Apr 2010, 14:32
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On FAF (Finnish Air Force) F-18 flew into the ashes on thursday, engines where damaged, see pic and read article in Swedish at
SKADOR P PLANEN | Jaktplan fick aska i motorerna
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