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Polish Government Tu154M crash

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Polish Government Tu154M crash

Old 13th Apr 2010, 00:41
  #441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Just Say NO.

It is tough to say NO to your boss. Beyond the Polish tragedy, I hope we can all learn something.

I think that the one thing that must be understood in the pilot/boss relationship is that the PILOT is the boss of the plane.

So, when the boss says: DO IT. YOU SAY: NOPE, DO YOU WANT TO FLY IT? Then here are the KEYS. (smaller planes usually have keys...for the ignition system...bigger planes sometimes have keys to the door, but don't need them to ''start'' the plane)

I would make it a law that if a pilot is fired for saying NO, then they get six months severence pay.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 00:46
  #442 (permalink)  
 
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if a pilot is fired for saying NO, then they get six months severence pay.
Or a medal
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 01:22
  #443 (permalink)  
 
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Cross paths

"the PILOT is the boss of the plane"

The BOSS is boss of the PILOT, his career and future. "If you can't do it then next time we'll find someone else who can" is the usual threat.

If same situation arises and you think you have a DO IT BOSS on board, get him up front for a minute to see fog and confirm YOUR call. After witnessing the situation himself he should back off and understand. If he still disagrees advise him he is welcome to identify himself directly with ATC to advise his landing intentions on his authority.

DO IT BOSS's are big on bullying but cowards on public blame.

Regardless, up here PILOT is BOSS, so divert to X, make a report and live to get another job...
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 01:34
  #444 (permalink)  
 
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I quit one job for a company not maintaing the plane properly and actually removing a log book page with a maintenance write up.

I quit another place for flying over gross weight.

It does hurt your career, but not your skills as a pilot.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 01:45
  #445 (permalink)  
 
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I think this is relevant

the pilot of the doomed plane in Smolensk was first officer on the plane to Tibilisi - in other words he witnessed Kaczynski's threaths to corner his captain into landing with 4 heads of state (Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia) on board.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 01:45
  #446 (permalink)  
 
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What kind of "secret NATO equipment" can be on a Russian-made plane that was overhauled in Russia a few months ago?
Quite a bit is possible actually, as well as various publications for various things. To go into the possibilities on here would be at risk of beadwindow though
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 01:57
  #447 (permalink)  
 
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Ran out of airspeed?

Only the black box info will contain the data to refute my theory but after reading everything I can find, and if I were a betting man, my money would be on:

After flying three orbits to establish a degree of familiarity with the weather and the layout the crew prepared for a single visual approach remaining VFR below the clouds and ready to climb out for a divert if they weren't happy with the situation.

They set up an approach configuration similar to one they would have employed on a glideslope and flew under the clouds towards the runway, with at best a marginal approach speed for the conditions. With the pressure of keeping tabs on the aircraft orientation and looking out for landmarks and the looming runway lights, suitably increasing engine thrust after they levelled out could well have been missed. As they approached the runway and encountered rising ground, and increasing thrust to compensate, the high drag configuration might have prevented an immediate climb-out, and the aircraft sustained enough damage after hitting a tree or trees making any further recovery impossible.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 02:56
  #448 (permalink)  
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Polish military pilots-when to give up an approach?

I don't want to open a can of warms, but after the crash of the CASA in 2008 I have talked to an ex -polish military pilot and he told me, that the polish military does not have clear procedures in place on when to give up an approach,as we have it clear in civilian flying. He said, that was the reason for the crash. I wonder, if anybody more informed knows more about this and if it was true, did they change the procedures?
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 04:09
  #449 (permalink)  
 
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It is my expectation that the flight crew would have been familiar with QFE procedures and altitude clearances issued in meters. Such procedures are standard in Russia and China; I am unaware of any other country which employs this kind of altimetry.
In my recent experience, metric QNH procedures now seem to be standard in China with their own brand of metric RVSM at higher altitudes. QFE is still given on the Chinese ATIS. Poland was metric and QFE a couple of decades ago as I recall. American Airlines (AA) used an archaic QFE procedure until a near CFIT at BDL in the mid-90's I believe.

Seems like the RAF used QFE fairly recently, is this right?

Mongolia, North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and 6,000 meters or below in Turkmenistan are also metric:

Flight level - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 05:21
  #450 (permalink)  
 
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Nojwod, your theory is astounding, in order to add some credibility to it, would you kindly advise us if you are a qualified pilot with time in jet aircraft?

Thanks

Mutt
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 05:59
  #451 (permalink)  
 
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Airbubba

The "near CFIT" at KBDL was an actual CFIT; if you count striking trees as a CFIT. The problem there was not especailly the use of QFE but the rapidly falling pressure combined with an abandoned tower, so no current altimeter setting for the crew. EAL and AA used QFE for years without it being implicated in an accident. It is really quite nice when understood and used proficiently. Just did a QFE approach into VKO the other night.

GF
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 06:46
  #452 (permalink)  
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Well WISE-GUY, high ground on approach path what about RADIO ALTIMETER, GPWS (ground proximity warning system) why were ignored?
International media is strongly sustaining the fourth try for landing. A good question is why?
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 06:49
  #453 (permalink)  
 
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International media is strongly sustaining the fourth try for landing. A good question is why?
Copy+paste and who cares about the facts.

Arrakis
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 08:27
  #454 (permalink)  
 
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DJP -
Silly question

would this flight ( civil ) had a locked cockpit door ?
It is a silly question. The flight was a miltary flight, not a civil flight.
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 08:38
  #455 (permalink)  
 
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Oh goody..conspiracy theories....?
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 09:17
  #456 (permalink)  
 
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Why didn't the airport close

Given the modest landing aid(s) the airport offers, the weather was obviously too bad for a safe approach and landing. Why didn't this Smolensk airport simply closed awaiting acceptable conditions? (Haven't read the entire thread, sorry if the question has been raised before).

/gfmb
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 09:38
  #457 (permalink)  
 
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here u got some pictures which didn't show by journalist:
iMGSRC.RU 154 on para-moto1.iMGSRC.RU

and view from satellite after crash:

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/3/7765/m7765863.jpg
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 09:53
  #458 (permalink)  
 
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Look at that picture above.

That plane looks way left of the centre line if you do comparisons to google earth.

Anybody confirm this?
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 09:55
  #459 (permalink)  
 
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it was said earlier
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Old 13th Apr 2010, 10:03
  #460 (permalink)  
 
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Full picture:
Flickr Photo Download: Smolensk, Russia

That plane looks way left of the centre line
Not a surprise. According to the Russians from Smolensk, it was in the runway axis. Deviation is just a result of all the events after hitting the first tree.


Arrakis
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