Polish Government Tu154M crash
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I think at this stage to make a link with aircraft type and age with the facts as they are currently known makes no sense. 
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Stuknij sie po głowie Tonden..
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Showing video of the wreckage... looks pretty bad. Cleared patch of forest where it happened, fires were still being extinguished, wreckage scattered over the forest.
Huge blow for Poland, almost of unbelievable proportions. Plane was full of government VIPs, and all on the anniversary and on the way to Katyń.
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Showing video of the wreckage... looks pretty bad. Cleared patch of forest where it happened, fires were still being extinguished, wreckage scattered over the forest.
Huge blow for Poland, almost of unbelievable proportions. Plane was full of government VIPs, and all on the anniversary and on the way to Katyń.
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Polish tv news are airing now terrible first videos from the site of the crash.
Total burning, smoldering, shattered wreckage.
Some fragments of tail and engines parts are recognizable.
No one could survive such crash
.
Total burning, smoldering, shattered wreckage.
Some fragments of tail and engines parts are recognizable.
No one could survive such crash
.
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I realise for any Polish person posting here there is an emotional connection, but please, don't try and convince anyone that a Tu154 era aircraft (no matter how well maintained and operated) will achieve anywhere near the level of safety afforded by (for example) a borrowed LOT B737. 
At least be realistic on that score. Better perhaps to even have spent a few million on a Citation / Falcon , too late now.
At least be realistic on that score. Better perhaps to even have spent a few million on a Citation / Falcon , too late now.
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The video shows clearly intact "black box".
Very important, the area is cordoned by Russian police and secret service.
All journalists materials from the airfield were confiscated.
It is a miracle that this video was transferred to Poland and broadcasted worldwide.
Very important, the area is cordoned by Russian police and secret service.
All journalists materials from the airfield were confiscated.
It is a miracle that this video was transferred to Poland and broadcasted worldwide.
Sad Sad news on so many deaths.
Concerned about confiscation of media material.
Russians will have to realise that it will have to be an open investigation with Western experts doing the lead as anything other than that will not be accepted by Poland.
Concerned about confiscation of media material.
Russians will have to realise that it will have to be an open investigation with Western experts doing the lead as anything other than that will not be accepted by Poland.
I realise for any Polish person posting here there is an emotional connection, but please, don't try and convince anyone that a Tu154 era aircraft (no matter how well maintained and operated) will achieve anywhere near the level of safety afforded by (for example) a borrowed LOT B737.
If the very dense fog/low cloud at Smolensk was the main cause of the crash, the question is, would another plane with newest avionics made the difference?
Arrakis
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There were negotiations to lease 2 Embraer 175 from LOT.
The negotiation have been broken few month ago, the reason
was not sufficient range.
At the moment, the reporter, Polish TV technician is confirming live
he was fighting with the police to rescue the tape.
He was in the hotel near the approach path.
He heard the crash, grabbed the camera and was able to take the shots.
He was aware he has to look for black box.
He was later arrested by OMON, but release on protest by Polish officials.
Running now live on Polish TV3 and 3.
The negotiation have been broken few month ago, the reason
was not sufficient range.
At the moment, the reporter, Polish TV technician is confirming live
he was fighting with the police to rescue the tape.
He was in the hotel near the approach path.
He heard the crash, grabbed the camera and was able to take the shots.
He was aware he has to look for black box.
He was later arrested by OMON, but release on protest by Polish officials.
Running now live on Polish TV3 and 3.
still persevering with such an unsafe type for so long
It is an old and by present standards uneconomical design, but if maintained properly (as I'm sure this aircraft was) it can be flown as safely as anything else.
Highly speculative, but this is what a rumour network is for: this may be the ultimate sad case of politicans meddling with airline/aircraft operations. I can very easily envision the scenario where there was enormous pressure on the crew (real or percieved) to complete the flight with marginal weather conditions to an airport with no precision approach. The high ranking person on board was not a particularly easy character to deal with, we will never find out how he may have reacted to the suggestion of delaying or cancelling the flight...
To this add a dash of recent operating environment in WAW - with only Cat II available, standard operating practice of many airlines (including the major local one) in marginal weather (which is basically all winter) was to shoot an approach even if reported minima were below legal, and the co-pilot look out of the window to the right. Once ground was in sight and one particular characteristic buliding was identified just right of the flight path, the call-out 'runway in sight' was made, usually just a second or two before reaching minimums. The runway did appear straight ahead about 5-10 seconds later... I'm reasonably sure the relevant authorities were aware of this practice, and turned a blind eye. Such an attitude will invariably lead to trouble eventually.
Will be interesting to see how these aspects of this sad event will be handled and released.
Last edited by andrasz; 10th Apr 2010 at 12:11.
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I remind You all that it is military airfield. No wonder that russian militia overreacted. Still huge informational chaos, concerning lost souls.
They say that russian ATC propossed other landing places.
They say that russian ATC propossed other landing places.
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Andrasz:
....last report says it was the 4th approach attempt....
The were number of people waiting in the Katyń Forest
for the President to start the celebrations.
Now official press conference of the Polish Foreign Ministry running.
Passenger list is being verified.
Original list was 89, one person confirmed not appearing on time.
Now 88 dead expected. Not confirmed, not sure if some more persons
missed the departure 7 a.m. LT.
Some unconfirmed rumours three survivors in hospital.
....last report says it was the 4th approach attempt....
The were number of people waiting in the Katyń Forest
for the President to start the celebrations.
Now official press conference of the Polish Foreign Ministry running.
Passenger list is being verified.
Original list was 89, one person confirmed not appearing on time.
Now 88 dead expected. Not confirmed, not sure if some more persons
missed the departure 7 a.m. LT.
Some unconfirmed rumours three survivors in hospital.
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