Landing when the airport is closed
Landing when the airport is closed
I heard a very unusual exchange between New York (oceanic) and a flight with the callsign MEM4099. I believe it was an Antonov 12.
This flight was inbound to Bermuda and the crew were advised that due to the weather the airport was closed and ATC were not in attendance. The wind was 40 gusting 55kts across the runway.
Despite being asked several times what his intentions were the flight merely replied by repeating his callsign. It was in such a way that I imagine that the controller would have doubted that the crew understood what was being said to them. Pretty much every question put to them was met with the same ambiguous response. To cut a long story short it became evident that MEM4099 was going to land even though the reported wind was as stated above and that no ATC would be available. NY cleared them to a fix and then asked them to call them once they had landed.
Happily, I can say that shortly afterwards he did call up to say he was on the ground. I cannot recall such an unusual conversation between an aircraft and ATC. At no time did they declare any Pan/Mayday or give the slightest indication as to why they needed to land so urgently. Are there many aircraft that can land with a 55kt crosswind on a wet runway?
BBK
This flight was inbound to Bermuda and the crew were advised that due to the weather the airport was closed and ATC were not in attendance. The wind was 40 gusting 55kts across the runway.
Despite being asked several times what his intentions were the flight merely replied by repeating his callsign. It was in such a way that I imagine that the controller would have doubted that the crew understood what was being said to them. Pretty much every question put to them was met with the same ambiguous response. To cut a long story short it became evident that MEM4099 was going to land even though the reported wind was as stated above and that no ATC would be available. NY cleared them to a fix and then asked them to call them once they had landed.
Happily, I can say that shortly afterwards he did call up to say he was on the ground. I cannot recall such an unusual conversation between an aircraft and ATC. At no time did they declare any Pan/Mayday or give the slightest indication as to why they needed to land so urgently. Are there many aircraft that can land with a 55kt crosswind on a wet runway?
BBK
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I remember the same thing happening to an Eastern B-727 many years ago. Sometimes the weather just doesn't cooperate. When headed to an island without an alternate you do whatever it takes to get the job done.
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All the smart answers aside, just what the hell do you expect the poor fella to do if he is en route to an island destination with crap terminal weatherand nowhere else to go? You can blether on all you like about what he "should" or "might" or "ought" to have done. He doesn't have that luxury.
"Open or not, I have no option to be landing there. Talk to me , or don't, as you wish. I'm still landing."
BBK, if the only place your fuel will take you is a 55tk crosswind on a wet and unattended runway with emergency services at least accessible eventually or a 120KT ditching into wind into a totally unattended Hamilton Harbour which would you prefer?
Assuming he had correctly considered the en-route weather and flight planning on that route then what was Bermuda doing closing in his face if he had nowhere else to go?
Probably more to this than meets the eye...
"Open or not, I have no option to be landing there. Talk to me , or don't, as you wish. I'm still landing."
BBK, if the only place your fuel will take you is a 55tk crosswind on a wet and unattended runway with emergency services at least accessible eventually or a 120KT ditching into wind into a totally unattended Hamilton Harbour which would you prefer?
Assuming he had correctly considered the en-route weather and flight planning on that route then what was Bermuda doing closing in his face if he had nowhere else to go?
Probably more to this than meets the eye...
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Had to land at LLW by the light of the moon back in the early 90s. Everyone had gone home and forgotten about us! We had no choice and had pretty good vis.
As I was in a mil jet at the time it could have been seen as an invasion but we were friendly and eventually so were they.
As I was in a mil jet at the time it could have been seen as an invasion but we were friendly and eventually so were they.
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Agaricus,
With all due respect, I don't doubt that you're appreciating both sides of the story, but it could be just as easily countered (entirely justifiably) by posing the question... Just what the hell was the poor fella playing at by taking on what could be interpreted as a borderline uncooperative attitude to ATC? Not only that, but failing to respond coherantly to the requests of ATC, whilst inbound to an airport blowing a 55kt x-wind strikes me as a huge cause for concern. Pilots are 99.9% of the time very good at making themselves available on the airwaves when required.
Of course this is all speculative dribble based on what the OP heard. I see no problem with a crew electing to continue a landing in adverse weather (after all, they are in the best position to determine a course of action), but why all this callsign gibberish?
More to the story etc
With all due respect, I don't doubt that you're appreciating both sides of the story, but it could be just as easily countered (entirely justifiably) by posing the question... Just what the hell was the poor fella playing at by taking on what could be interpreted as a borderline uncooperative attitude to ATC? Not only that, but failing to respond coherantly to the requests of ATC, whilst inbound to an airport blowing a 55kt x-wind strikes me as a huge cause for concern. Pilots are 99.9% of the time very good at making themselves available on the airwaves when required.
Of course this is all speculative dribble based on what the OP heard. I see no problem with a crew electing to continue a landing in adverse weather (after all, they are in the best position to determine a course of action), but why all this callsign gibberish?
More to the story etc
Bermuda is long way from anyway esp in an old Antonov Turbo prop. usual diversion airport is JFK 770 miles North West , if really desperate I think it Newport NAS about 700 miles WNW . .
Strong winter winds are very common in Bermuda and generally from the South west, terrain meant the runway had to be aligned 13/31 (I think) so cross winds can be a very severe problem. Lived there for 12 years and some very very bumpy rides in and a couple of very near miss disasters as two 727 within a couple of years demolished the outer 6-8 feet of a wing by striking the runway on touchdown in these sort of conditions: closures are a regular tho not frequent occurence. In my time there a good many C130s -similar type - made fuel stops in Bermuda before or after a long Atlantic crossing and I imagine a diversion against a very strong headwind component to a field 770 miles -3 hours or more away perhaps wasnt an option for shoestring freight operation-scary thought.
There is another more into wind runway that is closed but I suspect an Antonov prop with its military heritage would be ok into wind on it.
ATC in Bermuda is just tower and ground with all approach and departure radar handled by New York Centre using remte feds froma radar ona hill overlooking L F Wade international or Kindley Field as it is always called.
The airport is seperated by water from the main island and in strong winds the causeway and bridge carrying the only road to it are often closed so many airport personnel and sometimes pax stranded within sight of airpoirt but with no way of getting there. So its quite possisble there were no ATC in the tower so who will ever know what the Ant crew did. ( Locals dont tend to plane spot in %%kts and the horizontal rain that accompanies it)
PB
Strong winter winds are very common in Bermuda and generally from the South west, terrain meant the runway had to be aligned 13/31 (I think) so cross winds can be a very severe problem. Lived there for 12 years and some very very bumpy rides in and a couple of very near miss disasters as two 727 within a couple of years demolished the outer 6-8 feet of a wing by striking the runway on touchdown in these sort of conditions: closures are a regular tho not frequent occurence. In my time there a good many C130s -similar type - made fuel stops in Bermuda before or after a long Atlantic crossing and I imagine a diversion against a very strong headwind component to a field 770 miles -3 hours or more away perhaps wasnt an option for shoestring freight operation-scary thought.
There is another more into wind runway that is closed but I suspect an Antonov prop with its military heritage would be ok into wind on it.
ATC in Bermuda is just tower and ground with all approach and departure radar handled by New York Centre using remte feds froma radar ona hill overlooking L F Wade international or Kindley Field as it is always called.
The airport is seperated by water from the main island and in strong winds the causeway and bridge carrying the only road to it are often closed so many airport personnel and sometimes pax stranded within sight of airpoirt but with no way of getting there. So its quite possisble there were no ATC in the tower so who will ever know what the Ant crew did. ( Locals dont tend to plane spot in %%kts and the horizontal rain that accompanies it)
PB
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When closed at night any aircraft wishing/needing to land there can turn on the runway and approach lights themselves.
This is also the case at many small regional airports in the USA.
I wont tell you how as I don't want to be the cause of masses of spotters rushing out to their nearest closed airport tonight!
This is also the case at many small regional airports in the USA.
I wont tell you how as I don't want to be the cause of masses of spotters rushing out to their nearest closed airport tonight!
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In the U.S., there is no specific FAA requirement for an airport to be "open" to land there.
There are, however, municipal statutes you can violate.
And there's always "careless and reckless"....
There are, however, municipal statutes you can violate.
And there's always "careless and reckless"....
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The interesting question here is whether the airport was closed or the tower was closed. If the tower closed, the airport becomes a class E uncontrolled and setting aside all the other issues, is usable as such. If the airport was closed but the tower staffed, I suspect it's a different issue.
As others said, they probably did what they had to do and communicated the way they were accustomed to communicate.
As others said, they probably did what they had to do and communicated the way they were accustomed to communicate.
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Antonov 12 Bermuda
With a high wing and differential power available, I see no reason that a successful landing couldn't be made in the reported conditions by a good crew.
The wind we know was the last reported. That doesn't mean it was the same when the landing was made.
We don't know whether the landing was accomplished on the first or subsequent attempts.
It was successful, that's what counts.
The wind we know was the last reported. That doesn't mean it was the same when the landing was made.
We don't know whether the landing was accomplished on the first or subsequent attempts.
It was successful, that's what counts.
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BBK , in this neck of the woods about two thirds of my landings are at "closed" airports, no tower, no runway reports, no FSS, no friction index Tafs or Metars, turn the lights on with the Aircall system, check the runway for wildlife before T/O {we had a Falcon hit a deer last year $500,000 worth of dents, }the good news is one can keep the "road kill". the other good news is no aproach ban, no T/O mins and no one around to quote the latest red tape from the feds , flying as it was meant to be!
clunckdriver
Outside of NA and OZ or outside of airlines, where crews that NEVER flew anything but under ATC, the very thought of operating into an uncontrolled airport is unthinkable. Yes, hard to believe airplanes flew BEFORE there was ATC.
Yes, that is how aviation is supposed to be--a pilot, a "mission" and a plane.
GF
Outside of NA and OZ or outside of airlines, where crews that NEVER flew anything but under ATC, the very thought of operating into an uncontrolled airport is unthinkable. Yes, hard to believe airplanes flew BEFORE there was ATC.
Yes, that is how aviation is supposed to be--a pilot, a "mission" and a plane.
GF
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QUOTE FROM BBK........."Despite being asked several times what his intentions were the flight merely replied by repeating his callsign"
This is totally unacceptable and is an example of extremely bad airmanship.
This is totally unacceptable and is an example of extremely bad airmanship.
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If there is no option, other than landing, then declare the Mayday and land.
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Contacted, next week Im due to land at least four "closed" airports, {after/before normall operating hours, not that there is any ATC or stuff at any time} no one on the ground, so if I call Mayday four times it will be OK? Somehow methinks that the other aircraft landing at these places might get a tad POd with us, not to mention our SAR folks.It seems to me that many who fly the big silver tubes these days have little or no clue about how much of the world operates,we recently had one divert to such an airport and insisted on calling "ground and tower ", didnt want to move unless someone spoke to him, seems he felt that 10,000ft of blacktop must have all this stuff, one of our destinations has around 100 IFR aircraft a day landing when "closed", so far none of us have bumped into each other, unlike a few controlled/open airports around here.Mind you it does require that the crews know where they are and can keep a plot in their head as to the location of the other folks, a skill that seems to be absent in many countries.Its worth noting that the worst ground collision in history took place at an "open/controlled" airport.