KLM 737 @t EHAM & Aeroflot 737 @ ENGM taxiway take-off
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Yesterday's taxi instruction was "taxi to 36L, cross 36C via W5..."
Study the EHAM charts and let me know how many options you will find. It's all about preparation and certainly not rushing.
Could there be an easier instruction for such a long taxi?
Yesterday's taxi instruction was "taxi to 36L, cross 36C via W5..."
Study the EHAM charts and let me know how many options you will find. It's all about preparation and certainly not rushing.
Could there be an easier instruction for such a long taxi?
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After Quebec the official way is via Taxiway A Northbound. It usually isn't critical and you will often find that local crews will ask for Bravo because it is a smoother surface than Alpha.
You will find that when it IS critical (usually when landing on 36C) ATC will, when giving a clearance to cross Quebec, re-iterate that the aircraft must route via Alpha with the statement "After Quebec, route Alpha." All aircraft taxiing in will be via Bravo and told to "Hold abeam A26" to ensure that no-one goes head to head on Quebec, which is the only bottleneck at Schiphol.
It is a great shame this happened. It is a bit confusing in this area, made even more so when the airport realigned the runway entrances a couple of years ago. Yes, we all know that the Dutch are an arrogant race ("If you're not Dutch, you're not much" is a popular statement within KLM) but this could have happened to anyone. But really it shouldn't happen at your home base and I am sure that is what the investigation will focus on- how did crew co-ordination break down to such an extent that this happened. Possibly, they were being cool and blase about the departure, but I suspect they won't be making that mistake again in a hurry!
ATC have to shoulder some of the blame here as well- I have been to the SPL tower on several occasions and it is absolutely state of the art up there, with displays of GMR etc. in front of the controller. I think he or she will be involved in the de-brief!
You will find that when it IS critical (usually when landing on 36C) ATC will, when giving a clearance to cross Quebec, re-iterate that the aircraft must route via Alpha with the statement "After Quebec, route Alpha." All aircraft taxiing in will be via Bravo and told to "Hold abeam A26" to ensure that no-one goes head to head on Quebec, which is the only bottleneck at Schiphol.
It is a great shame this happened. It is a bit confusing in this area, made even more so when the airport realigned the runway entrances a couple of years ago. Yes, we all know that the Dutch are an arrogant race ("If you're not Dutch, you're not much" is a popular statement within KLM) but this could have happened to anyone. But really it shouldn't happen at your home base and I am sure that is what the investigation will focus on- how did crew co-ordination break down to such an extent that this happened. Possibly, they were being cool and blase about the departure, but I suspect they won't be making that mistake again in a hurry!
ATC have to shoulder some of the blame here as well- I have been to the SPL tower on several occasions and it is absolutely state of the art up there, with displays of GMR etc. in front of the controller. I think he or she will be involved in the de-brief!
English standards
'...And like you Brits aren't arrogant??' I think maybe we just resent anyone who speaks better English than we do, such as the Dutch. Never a problem with the US though.
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I remember training an eager young Dutch pilot. After correcting and explaining why what he was doing was dangerous. He said, “Yes. But at the KLM flight academy we did it this way. So you must be wrong!”
I did enjoyed training/working with most of the Dutch pilots I came across!
I did enjoyed training/working with most of the Dutch pilots I came across!
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In AMS I believe that around the terminals there are dual laned taxiways except for Q which is the south bridge.
As a simple rule try driving on the right {continental driving} on the taxiways and you can't go wrong. This applies clockwise anticlockwise taxi after landing taxi before departure.
It is as simple as that......unless it is modified by ATC.
My only real bad experience with ATC was being told that I was number 1 to start but there would be a delay for snow clearance on the runway by the snowdesk controller and when it reopened and I changed to startup controller I was told I was number 157 to start.
All the sky blue aircraft got airborne first that night..........and that is wrong.
As a simple rule try driving on the right {continental driving} on the taxiways and you can't go wrong. This applies clockwise anticlockwise taxi after landing taxi before departure.
It is as simple as that......unless it is modified by ATC.
My only real bad experience with ATC was being told that I was number 1 to start but there would be a delay for snow clearance on the runway by the snowdesk controller and when it reopened and I changed to startup controller I was told I was number 157 to start.
All the sky blue aircraft got airborne first that night..........and that is wrong.
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safewing
I understand the first part, but please can someone explain the "This applies clockwise anticlockwise taxi after landing taxi before departure"
Thanks
737 - S
As a simple rule try driving on the right {continental driving} on the taxiways and you can't go wrong. This applies clockwise anticlockwise taxi after landing taxi before departure.
Thanks
737 - S
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ATC responsibility
Well, technically the answer is that there is nothing on the runway.
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From where the tower is, I'm not too sure that with eyeball only it would be possible on a dark night to notice the subtle difference between an a/c on 36C or the parallel taxiway. But why didn't they use the available ground radar? Or was it OFF for maintenance?!
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In my opinion taxi instructions at AMS are very clear. Unnecessary information is not issued.....Keep It Stupid Simple. 
When asking for taxi. ATC replies with:
"Taxi RWY 24"
Avoids R/T congestion. Enjoy the silence.
When asking for taxi. ATC replies with:
"Taxi RWY 24"
Avoids R/T congestion. Enjoy the silence.
Apache for HEMS - Strafe those Survivors!
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In the company I work for I have many Dutch colleagues, in general I find them an absolute pleasure to work with, very professional, and they usually speak better English than I do, and I am supposedly a native speaker.
Please keep in mind that when someone is not speaking their native tongue, it is easy for their natural pronunciation or tone to make them sound harsh when that is not intended.
As to this incident, it sounds like a classic HF incident where a number of systemic problems were just waiting for the opportunity to trip someone up. Thankfully we should get a "free" lesson this time, as the biggest casualty should be bruised egos
Please keep in mind that when someone is not speaking their native tongue, it is easy for their natural pronunciation or tone to make them sound harsh when that is not intended.
As to this incident, it sounds like a classic HF incident where a number of systemic problems were just waiting for the opportunity to trip someone up. Thankfully we should get a "free" lesson this time, as the biggest casualty should be bruised egos
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All the sky blue aircraft got airborne first that night..........and that is wrong
Now Brussels Airport was a different matter when Sabena were in existance- they had their own taxiways to overtake all the visitors!
But we use the Polderbaan (36L/18R) as much as anyone- as someone said, it depends on where you are going. Polderbaan for westerly departures, Zwanenburgbaan (36C/18C) for the easterlies. Alternatively, it is 24 (Kaagbaan) for westerlies or 18R (Aalsmeerbaan) for easterlies and occasional alternative combinations depending on the wind or current noise complaints from the neighbours.
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