Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut

Old 28th Jan 2010, 02:17
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Planet Earth, mostly
Posts: 467
Received 6 Likes on 3 Posts
[QUOTE]How about a rocket flying loose tha night from all those ships that are in the area???? No surprise they were quick in attending the scene of the accident to help out. We've seen this scenario in the past.'

Just say something like this did happen. Would the pilot have any warning a rocket or missile of some kind was accidently heading for the aircraft? C/QUOTE]

An El Al pilot would, yes. But on Ethiopian Airlines, no.
etrang is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2010, 19:48
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oxford
Age: 52
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kenyan Airways- Cameroon - Lessons Not Learnt - Or Even Known.

As I understand things:

- Black Boxs went to Canada for analysis.

- Canadians cannot reveal what they reveal, under ICAO rules, because Cameroon has not given ‘permission’.

- This means that they may (I emphasise may - I have no idea), be information of great relevance to 737-800 pilots contained in those black boxes.

- We won’t know until Cameroon, the world's leading aviation power and authority on civil aviation - gives its ‘permission’ to the Canadians to reveal all.
Bridge Builder is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2010, 21:10
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Posts: 507
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Good point

Bridge Builder raises a good point. Letting national authorities control the release of the flight data is not the ideal situation. The Tunisian ATR ditching is a good case in point. Prosecutors want to put a spin on the CVR tapes that many pilots felt was dead wrong. Having the tapes to listen to made a big difference in that case. Canada will not even allow the release of CVR transcripts, let alone the recordings themselves.
I know this is a hot button item but at some level I think ICAO should insist that the raw data be available to a wider audience.

20driver
20driver is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2010, 02:02
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I know this is a hot button item but at some level I think ICAO should insist that the raw data be available to a wider audience
I wonder if they have an obligation to share the info with the aircraft manufacturer for flight safety purposes only?
None is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2010, 03:13
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I wonder if they have an obligation to share the info with the aircraft manufacturer for flight safety purposes only?
It's commonly done when something needs to be fixed. Of course in many cases it's the pilot training that needs to be addressed at the operator level.
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2010, 05:32
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is there any sourced report of the voice or data recorders actually being retrieved form the bottom? I see such reports of their pinger signals being received, but not of the boxes being raised to the surface and sent to Canada, or anywhere else for analysis.
repariit is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2010, 12:28
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: At home
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The search still continues. It seems the exact location was not yet pinpointed on Thursday evening.
snowfalcon2 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2010, 22:02
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting article from Flight Global.

Pilot disorientation accidents have become a phenomenon

This accident is discussed in the article.
Flight Safety is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 02:33
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: alameda
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We spend such little time on basics of flight. Once you are flying for a big airline, we seem to forget the little things.

The transition from visual to instrument flight is tough...especially at night...especially over the sea.

I remember quite an article about losing engines in the mighty 757 and the high nose attitude in normal two engine climbing flight. The article had to remind pilots to lower the nose.

We must stay on instruments and be able to transition from visual to instruments as easily as canadian controllers switch between english and french.

We must practice such things, just like we must do physical exercise.

And remember, if you can't avoid thunderstorms, check out the AIM for good advice...including watching your instruments and turning on the cockpit lights to protect from lightning flash.

also, try to know a ''safe'' attitude and power setting...one that you can reliably go to when all else fails...most jets will survive a pitch of 10 degrees up and max power...level wings of course...at least below 20,000feet.
protectthehornet is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 03:12
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Flight Global is at it again.

Who is not going to fly the numbers particularly in scenarios such as most of these?

...save AF447, where apparently some of their more important numbers went missing, or worse, wobbly.
vapilot2004 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 09:43
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have just flown to Addis Ababa on Ethiopian from Harare via Lusaka. The flight was delayed by 4 and a half hours. Conflicting reasons were given by Ethiopian and the pilots for the delay. There was however heavy CB activity in Harare though.

Despite the delay, the flight was exceptionally good and enjoyable.
Zimpilot1 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 10:04
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There have been inordinate delays on Ethiopian this week - not totally unusual but somewhat extreme. I have not found anyone that has been given a valid reason yet. My wife returns tomnight after a 3+ hour delay for a midnight departure on her way out. Will be interested to see if she gets the same again.
badgerh is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 18:42
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey guys,
stop complaining about delays. After all they are one frame short.
assymetric is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 18:52
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And one crew


Poor guys, just like you and me.

Maybe someone sent them a "really wide ball" that evening, or maybe they just cocked it up, but they didn't go home, and all we know they did was go to work.

F----ng sad.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2010, 22:03
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Voice & Data Box Recovery

This appears to be the most current status:
Lebanon’s Transportation and Public Works Minister Ghazi al-Aridi said on Saturday that advanced submarines were on-route to Lebanon to aid in search operations of the Ethiopian Airlines flight ET409 crash.
“We did not expect to discover that 10 kilometers from the Lebanese shore, there are depths that go beyond 1300 meters.” Aridi said
During Friday’s cabinet meeting it was revealed that the company that owns Ocean Alert ( which identified the location of the black boxes ) will send Odyssey Explorer, which has the capability a deep diving ROV that will help in recovering the plane’s boxes from the bottom of the sea .

Ocean Alert is currently in the Beirut area, but Odyssey Explorer is in the English Channel doing 8.5 knots. You can follow its path while in areas where its AIS signal is received at this web site: Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions. As of 31 Jan 2010 Odyssey Explorer is out of AIS contact with web site.

On 30 Jan 2010 the Odyssey Explorer was near Falmouth, UK, approximately 3,200 Nm from Beirut. Based on its speed of about eight knots, it will be mid February before it could arrive at the crash site.

Last edited by repariit; 31st Jan 2010 at 15:31. Reason: Progress update
repariit is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2010, 06:18
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My sister Dolly tells me that within Lebanese aviation circles the track publicly provided and discussed here is expanded with rather more dynamic data.

It is suggested that the maximum altitude of around 9000 feet was reached during or following the mysterious turn to the left. There was a very rapid climb to that altitude from around 6500ft associated with a remarkable decrease in ground speed - from more than 250 knots down to less than 150.
Pvt. Godfrey is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2010, 09:28
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: warwickshire
Age: 56
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
would IMC, loss of instruments tempo due to ??? lightening strike, and then spacial disorientation be an explanation?
Quite a bit of direction change, with ? no visual horizon following departure.
The last post talks of a rapid ascent at declining airspeed, 6550 to 9000-ft, with 250kt to 150kt.
andrew_wallis is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2010, 16:27
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: alameda
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
a sudden increase in the rate of climb and a decrease in ground speed (one must also suppose a decrease in IAS)...could this be a sudden problem with the pitot/static system...

a massive stab trim runaway?
protectthehornet is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2010, 18:53
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Today's Search Activity

Deep water exploration vessel Ocean Alert is searching the track displayed here today:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?zoom=10&mmsi=667932000&centerx=35.38093&centery =33.74397

This is real time data so it will change as time goes on. As I am writing this Ocean Alert is running back and forth on a line parallel to the shore about three miles west of Damour at 4.5 knots. He is most likely towing sonar equipment.

Last edited by repariit; 31st Jan 2010 at 19:34.
repariit is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2010, 21:04
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
a massive stab trim runaway?
that would be hard to miss and easy to stop.
vapilot2004 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.