ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut
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It's being reported that per BEY ATC, the flight made it to ~8000ft in something like 3 minutes after takeoff in heavy rain, before crashing about 5km off the coast of Beirut.
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Eyewitnesses regularly report fire and then the crash. This is a normal human factors issue. The speed of light is of a much greater magnitude than sound. You see the flash and then hear the bang. The brain just uses that info to come to a conclusion that the aircraft was on fire before it hit.
Champagne anyone...?
Flown with Ethiopian a couple of times and would rate them much higher than a lot of the airborne dross knocking round Europe. Their cabin crew could certainly teach most of the global flag carriers a thing or two about service & pride in their companies. 
Sad day
Sad day
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I will be travelling with Ethiopian on my hols in September , best way to get to Mombasa from the Gulf , and possibly in May also to Lusaka . Never a doubt in my mind , just as I never worry about flying with other carriers who have had the odd tragedy . Their history is very good , they continue to buy new aircraft , standards are high . One swallow does not a summer make.
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It's not unusual with bad wx and CB activity around BEY at this time of the year, but to drop out of the sky from 8000ft? Most CB accidents happen at fairly low altitude, but thats not to say you can't loose control if you enter a CB at any altitude.
Provided it's switched on, the NG has got a good radar, so there should not be a problem avoiding bad wx.
Provided it's switched on, the NG has got a good radar, so there should not be a problem avoiding bad wx.
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Like ThreeMiles earlier in the thread says , it has certain parallels with Douala in plane type , weather and time of incident occuring within the flight. Lets hope answers are found.
BBC news (in London) right now says wreckage found, bodies recovered and no survivors yet.
Lebanese authorities report "heavy storms" when B738 departed.
Sad business when any aircraft crashes.
Lebanese authorities report "heavy storms" when B738 departed.
Sad business when any aircraft crashes.
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I live in Addis and my wife, particularly, and I are regular and happy users of Ethiopian. They seem to concentrate their efforts on safety and good service. Some departments are a shambles and it does not surprise me to see a press release with "inapropriate" boiler plate on it.
My sister was also flying on Ethiopian when this incident occured. Big fear this morning but all is well - she is safely on her way to Uganda after a lay over in Addis.
My sister was also flying on Ethiopian when this incident occured. Big fear this morning but all is well - she is safely on her way to Uganda after a lay over in Addis.
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Oh soorry V1
I fail to see where displayed such arrogance in my previous post. I commented on the conspiracy theorists posts on the first page and and obviously ruffled someones feathers.
Fact 1: EU has standards that airlines need to uphold to be able to operate. Most African countries do not have these standards or these are rampantly disregarded. Ethiopia again does have standards fully comparable to EU and enforces these standards. With the latest accident they have 3 fatal accidents including the Comores B767 ditching due to hijacking. So in essence they have a very decent safety record.
Fact:2 Ethiopian troops have been operating in Somalia and Eritrea on different times. For their reasons, valid or not, I don't care either way. Their Somalia operations do make them a potential target for the local militants and their associates. I am not suggesting terrorism as a cause of the accident
Fact 3: There was no information when I wrote my previous post nor is there now, to rule out any single cause for the accident nor is there any info to confirm a cause or causes. I will wait for an answer from the accident investigation.
The PPPPDS ( Professional Pilot PPrUne Disclaimer Statement)
As I said on my previous post and previous lines, I am not suggesting any cause or contributory factor or the involvement of any organisation or indivudual as a cause for the accident.
Fact 1: EU has standards that airlines need to uphold to be able to operate. Most African countries do not have these standards or these are rampantly disregarded. Ethiopia again does have standards fully comparable to EU and enforces these standards. With the latest accident they have 3 fatal accidents including the Comores B767 ditching due to hijacking. So in essence they have a very decent safety record.
Fact:2 Ethiopian troops have been operating in Somalia and Eritrea on different times. For their reasons, valid or not, I don't care either way. Their Somalia operations do make them a potential target for the local militants and their associates. I am not suggesting terrorism as a cause of the accident
Fact 3: There was no information when I wrote my previous post nor is there now, to rule out any single cause for the accident nor is there any info to confirm a cause or causes. I will wait for an answer from the accident investigation.
The PPPPDS ( Professional Pilot PPrUne Disclaimer Statement)
As I said on my previous post and previous lines, I am not suggesting any cause or contributory factor or the involvement of any organisation or indivudual as a cause for the accident.
Going by that last report of flames, it could well have been a bomb or shoot down.
He declared that he was going to fly a pilotless aircraft full of explosive over the next Farnborough Airshow, and remotely detonate it, so that - for once - 50,000 spectators could DEFINITELY state that the aircraft exploded in flight and was on fire before hitting the ground.
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Will have to wait for more information to surface, but a stark reminder of KQ507 that was in a similar predicament. Never really knew what happened in that incident, but hopefully in this case things will be brought to light.
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Recent Beirut FIR Wx and ATC
Departures from Beirut have an early handover to Lebanese FIR controllers - normally 2000 feet.
This has been a particularly bad winter for extensive lines of thunderstorms lying just off the coast at night. While not extending to anywhere near the altitudes of summer CB activity they have been extremely developed and very densely packed. More cores per unit of airspace if you like. Departures in these conditions can be very difficult as there is no single bit of convective activity you can expect to drift away in the next hour or hours.
Should reports filtering through from Beirut ATCC remain consistent regarding extremely poor wx conditions I, for one, take notice. In my direct and recent experience the controllers there have available a weather radar feed I consider to be at least equal to that on board a 737 NG.
Several of the controllers are extremely adept at offering guidance in these conditions when asked.
Rob
This has been a particularly bad winter for extensive lines of thunderstorms lying just off the coast at night. While not extending to anywhere near the altitudes of summer CB activity they have been extremely developed and very densely packed. More cores per unit of airspace if you like. Departures in these conditions can be very difficult as there is no single bit of convective activity you can expect to drift away in the next hour or hours.
Should reports filtering through from Beirut ATCC remain consistent regarding extremely poor wx conditions I, for one, take notice. In my direct and recent experience the controllers there have available a weather radar feed I consider to be at least equal to that on board a 737 NG.
Several of the controllers are extremely adept at offering guidance in these conditions when asked.
Rob
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Except that this forum ain't for condolences and sympathies Mr V1 rotate.......
8000' in 3 mins - straight up into potential serious icing in Cbs and with that rate of climb maybe the icing potential wasn't fully thought through with regards to use of EAI. Possibly a contributing factor? Can get pretty nasty over the eastern Med at this time of year..
8000' in 3 mins - straight up into potential serious icing in Cbs and with that rate of climb maybe the icing potential wasn't fully thought through with regards to use of EAI. Possibly a contributing factor? Can get pretty nasty over the eastern Med at this time of year..
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VIP on Board...
"Marla Sanchez Pietton, the wife of the French ambassador to Lebanon, was one of the passengers on board Flight 409 when it crashed".
Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes after takeoff from Beirut - Times Online
Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes after takeoff from Beirut - Times Online
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Fwiw, I too concur with what PPRuNe Towers has said (above) about Cb activity just offshore at BEY (Orographic uplift?) and of the very able ground based Wx radar system they use.
My most recent flight to Beirut was 21st Jan during which we too had Cb's (plus a quite low freezing level on departure, with ice soon to form under the wiper blade and also on the wiper nut).
ATC were top notch on our arrival (giving us excellent vectors to avoid, i.e. before we had to ask for it) and likewise, pre-takeoff, giving us a clearance that would see us clear the Cb's on the departure track - top stuff!
As for the Cb's themselves, whilst they might not be the size of summer ones, they are not to be under estimated!
My most recent flight to Beirut was 21st Jan during which we too had Cb's (plus a quite low freezing level on departure, with ice soon to form under the wiper blade and also on the wiper nut).
ATC were top notch on our arrival (giving us excellent vectors to avoid, i.e. before we had to ask for it) and likewise, pre-takeoff, giving us a clearance that would see us clear the Cb's on the departure track - top stuff!
As for the Cb's themselves, whilst they might not be the size of summer ones, they are not to be under estimated!
Hmm, seems to be a confusion going on about the registration. According to Aviation Herald it was ET-ANB not AMZ, supported by the statement of Ethiopian's CEO that the plane was built in 2002.
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4264b8d5&opt=1
so any final confirmation on the airframe? Just for the record.
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4264b8d5&opt=1
so any final confirmation on the airframe? Just for the record.