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Another Air Berlin incident in Nuremberg..

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Another Air Berlin incident in Nuremberg..

Old 9th Jan 2010, 02:20
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Another Air Berlin incident in Nuremberg..

Ab and snow don't go well together

Incident: Air Berlin B738 at Nuremberg on Jan 8th 2010, went off paved surface


An Air Berlin Boeing 737-800, registration D-ABKA flight AB-6777 from Nuremberg to Dusseldorf (Germany) with 133 people on board, went off paved surface of runway 10 at low speed, only the left hand main gear barely remained on the paved surface. No injuries and no damages are reported.

Nuremberg Airport reported, that the airplane to Dortmund was taxiing to line up on the runway, when it skidded off the paved surface and came to a stop about 1.5 meters off the runway. The passengers disembarked via stairs.

Air Berlin reported briefly, that flight AB-6777 registration D-ABKA to Dusseldorf was involved, no injuries, no damages.

The airport was closed for about two hours and reopened shortly past midnight.

Metars:
EDDN 082150Z 36008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 RESN R10/590293
EDDN 082120Z 36007KT 3500 SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293
EDDN 082050Z 01008KT 7000 -SN OVC022 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 082020Z 36009KT 7000 -SN BKN022 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1007 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081950Z 01008KT 5000 -SN BKN027 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081920Z 01008KT 5000 -SN SCT025 BKN050 BKN130 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081850Z 01009KT 5000 -SN FEW010 SCT025 BKN050 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG
EDDN 081820Z 01008KT 5000 -SN FEW010 BKN020 M05/M07 Q1008 R10/590293 NOSIG

Relevant NOTAM:
B0024/10 - RWY 10/28 CLSD. 08 JAN 21:18 2010 UNTIL 08 JAN 23:59 2010 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
08 JAN 21:19 2010

Map (Courtesy Google Earth):
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Old 9th Jan 2010, 15:51
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Was the taxyway snow covered ?
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Old 9th Jan 2010, 19:59
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Continuing on in th AA fashion , seems to be a lot of this at the moment
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Old 9th Jan 2010, 20:38
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Yep but different reasons for overuns or mere taxy incidents.
The 800 is very undertyred in the nose gear dept courtesy of the space available in the wheel well bay, which I believe is no more commodious than in -200 days. Even turning on dry tarmac, nose wheel slippage is not unheard of courtesy of the dinky nosewheels, so you can imagine how well it copes with a contaminated surface.
The runway overruns are another thing, and the two recent ones very different circumstances, but the -800 is not exactly over-endowed in terms of real world braking performance either.
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Old 10th Jan 2010, 00:08
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And the purpose of starting this thread reporting a non event as a probationary ppruner is what? To highlight that it is slippery out there? Get a life - this is a non event!
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Old 10th Jan 2010, 00:29
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In all honesty, don't have a problem.
It is a good heads up for all concerned, that a company who have already had a recent incident, can still be caught out. Even with crew being (I am really sure ) careful, an excursion is still a possibility.
Maybe a little sarcasm in his text, but best we all know, and be 110% careful out there to avoid "starring" on PPRuNe (God forbid )
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Old 16th Jan 2010, 20:14
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Rainboe

You'll end up banned again Brought a smile to my face though at the end
of what could have been a better day!

Rgds
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Old 17th Jan 2010, 21:19
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pressman,


Easy there! I'm not going to comment on our pay scale, but calling Air Berlin Pilots undertrained and inexperienced is quite a statement! I'd be glad to hear where you got that information from? Have you ever flown for Air Berlin or done any kind of training there? I wouldn't exactly call an 18000 hour (ON TYPE) Captain inexperienced, would you? Even our least experienced First Officers have at least 1500 hours on type. In case you haven't noticed: Air Berlin celebrated its 30th anniversary last year, an age that a lot of other companies like Ryanair or Easyjet have yet to reach. If you take a look at our safety record you might want to rethink your statement. Thirty years of flying without an accident are definitely NOT pointing towards inexperienced and undertrained pilots!
A lot of our TRI/TREs came out of the Air Force, having enjoyed quite some training during their military career. Some of these guys have been working for the company for more than twenty years, constantly working on improving the training and procedures.
Before I joined Air Berlin I've had three other airline jobs (one of them was flying for NetJets Europe, which is not exactly an airline job, but they do pride themselves with recruiting only the most experienced pilots, right?), but the training for Air Berlin was by far the most demanding and thorough that I've had so far.

It is not very professional to call colleagues inexperienced and undertrained in public; you have no way of knowing anybodys background! Do you know the circumstances of that incident in Nürnberg or the one in Dortmund? Do you have any information about the level of experience of the crew? I wouldn't think so, so how can you make such an assertion?

By the way: What was the third incident you mentioned? Don't tell me that you call a rejected take-off due to an indication problem with an uneventful return to the ramp an incident of the same magnitude like an overrun? What has that got to do with experience?
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Old 18th Jan 2010, 14:27
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@Pressman.... i dont think your attempt at tongue and cheek was appreciated, but like you say it could happen to anyone.
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Old 18th Jan 2010, 18:08
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NG Jockey , I will give you the benefit of not being a native english speaker and explain for you . The second part of my post clearly states that this comment is "tongue in cheek" .That means that I am not really serious , and I also state that "it could happen to anybody"
Many of us are not native English speakers, and some of us won't understand cynicism as easily as others. So please do excuse us uneducated ones, will you. By the way, your spelling and grammar is not exactly Oxford-style either.

The point that i was making is that AB had three minor incidents in a few days and it attracted very little comment - rightly so . On the other hand we at ryanair had an equally minor incident at prestwick - low speed skid off taxiway covered in ice - and it attracted all sorts of attacks on our professionalism , I find these double standards hard to take and unacceptable .
And so? Are you trying to make a point about the injustice here? This isn't supposed to be some kind of a competition here, where we count the number of incidents and accidents, multiply them by the negative comments and check the score.
Any "mishap" is one too many, but it is not professional to sneer at each other either. Or do you find satisfaction in the fact that, at last, it has happened to another airline too?

I have flown with many former AB guys at ryanair and they are all very proficient , but you do need to talk to the guy who was at 140kts on a 25mile final into alicante the other week , nearly a bloody pile up behind him .
I am not AB either (I used to be, I hated it, and consequently I left them), but to associate the proficiency of another pilot with his airline is just immature behaviour. We are all doing the same job.
So I don't know whatever happened in Alicante the other day nor whatever the reasons of that crew were to slow down to 140kts on a 25 miles final, but what is your point here? Is that supposed to be some kind of evidence that they are obviously not proficient?
 
Old 18th Jan 2010, 18:19
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So I don't know whatever happened in Alicante the other day nor whatever the reasons of that crew were to slow down to 140kts on a 25 miles final, but what is your point here? Is that supposed to be some kind of evidence that they are obviously not proficient?
nightfire, please lighten up a bit. Just a tad.

Bloody germans, can´t take a joke. (quoting Capt.Edmund Blackadder)

Before you go at me: thiz wazz a chokk!
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Old 18th Jan 2010, 18:33
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Thanks. I'm not German by the way. But whatever, I guess there's no sense in this thread anymore anyway. See you all on another one.
 
Old 18th Jan 2010, 18:40
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there are actually laughing lessons available in Germany
Don't need, got PPRuNe.
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