Aer Lingus to Leave Dublin Forever.
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Aer Lingus to Leave Dublin Forever.
Sooner than I thought, and by different means, but here you are.
From journalist Abi Bray. Emphasis is mine.
So, just how viable would a new Aer Lingus (UK) be, operating to the Republic from LGW and LHR, rather than the other way around as is currently the case? Is there a viable future for AERL long haul at all? What about if they rebranded themselves to operate across the pond using their 50 LHR slot pairs? It seems to me a bit of creative management thinking could indeed yet save Aer Lingus from the boneyard of aviation history.
Discuss.
From journalist Abi Bray. Emphasis is mine.
Aer Lingus may be on its way out the Republic of Ireland and may base itself out of London or Belfast in a bid to reduce costs and avoid further problems with unions.
According to The Wall Street Journal, the Irish airline has made a formal application to the civil aviation authority in the UK for an operating license.
If granted, this would mean the carrier could legally base its corporate headquarters in either Belfast or London.
The move would permit the struggling airline to start over which would ultimately force their current staff to reapply for their positions under the new Aer Lingus UK brand.
Aer Lingus is going through difficult negotiations with its unions at the moment. The carrier needs to cut 676 jobs which it says would be carried out via voluntary layoffs in order to help save $150 million by the end of 2011 in order to remain active.
Aer Lingus has given an ultimatum of November 30 to the unions to get the labor cuts, after which it would consider a different solution to reduce the size of the airline through route reductions and compulsory layoffs.
On of the biggest problems facing Aer Lingus is the one stemming from its long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well. At Ryanair by comparison, the pilots earn half as much.
Meanwhile, the carrier has admitted that more voluntary redundancies are needed by the carrier.
Some aviation industry experts have claimed that Aer Lingus is searching ways to get rid nearly one fifth of its staff. The carrier said it had a preference for voluntary redundancies, but added that compulsory one has not been ruled out.
Aer Lingus is far from being the only carrier in this tight situation. Other airlines such as British Airways and Japan Airlines are also going through major union disputes.
According to The Wall Street Journal, the Irish airline has made a formal application to the civil aviation authority in the UK for an operating license.
If granted, this would mean the carrier could legally base its corporate headquarters in either Belfast or London.
The move would permit the struggling airline to start over which would ultimately force their current staff to reapply for their positions under the new Aer Lingus UK brand.
Aer Lingus is going through difficult negotiations with its unions at the moment. The carrier needs to cut 676 jobs which it says would be carried out via voluntary layoffs in order to help save $150 million by the end of 2011 in order to remain active.
Aer Lingus has given an ultimatum of November 30 to the unions to get the labor cuts, after which it would consider a different solution to reduce the size of the airline through route reductions and compulsory layoffs.
On of the biggest problems facing Aer Lingus is the one stemming from its long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well. At Ryanair by comparison, the pilots earn half as much.
Meanwhile, the carrier has admitted that more voluntary redundancies are needed by the carrier.
Some aviation industry experts have claimed that Aer Lingus is searching ways to get rid nearly one fifth of its staff. The carrier said it had a preference for voluntary redundancies, but added that compulsory one has not been ruled out.
Aer Lingus is far from being the only carrier in this tight situation. Other airlines such as British Airways and Japan Airlines are also going through major union disputes.
Discuss.
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long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well. At Ryanair by comparison, the pilots earn half as much.
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long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well.
[quote]
there is a difference between cost and earn in the numbers being bandied about in the many posts above .
The actual cost to the airline includes pension benefits, medical, overhead etc. etc.
The pilots might actually earn a lot less depending on these mangement factors.
However, no doubt that Aer Lingus will be better off if they shed them and hire lower pay pilots eager for the work
long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well./QUOTE]
EI Management say there are 60 pilots who cost the airline €20m a year in wages and pensions.
EI Management say there are 60 pilots who cost the airline €20m a year in wages and pensions.
The actual cost to the airline includes pension benefits, medical, overhead etc. etc.
The pilots might actually earn a lot less depending on these mangement factors.
However, no doubt that Aer Lingus will be better off if they shed them and hire lower pay pilots eager for the work
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So that's why they wanted a UK AOC.
I don't know why people are arguing about unions etc. If they are having to do something like this, then it sounds all over, no matter what the management try.
I'm very sorry for any of the staff of EI, but it is a matter of when, not if...
I don't know why people are arguing about unions etc. If they are having to do something like this, then it sounds all over, no matter what the management try.
I'm very sorry for any of the staff of EI, but it is a matter of when, not if...
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Source for this wonderful article please? Type "Abi Bray Journalist" into Google and this thread is what comes up. This is after all, still a public forum, and I have rights to read and post, the same as Mr Camel, so I ask him to cough up some more info before taking this seriously, which I probably won't anyway because...
If indeed true, that implies about €330,000 which far below the half-million quoted in our unconfirmed article. It's above the €250,000 figure I hear from Aer Lingus pilots but that's neither here nor there. We are also told in this 'article' that €250,000 is what Ryanair pilots earn. But those Ryanair pilots are all short haul and Aer Lingus short haul pilots certainly don't earn that much, so in fact Ryanair pilots MUST be paid more WAAAYY more compared to Aer Lingus short haul pilots. Now, if Aer Lingus can't survive because of how much the pilots cost (and it is indeed a problem that needs addressing) how can Ryanair survive if their pilots cost so much more?
So it would seem, logically, to me, humble SLF, that Leo Hairy-Camel has just told us that Ryanair is in trouble.
K.
EI Management say there are 60 pilots who cost the airline €20m a year in wages and pensions.
So it would seem, logically, to me, humble SLF, that Leo Hairy-Camel has just told us that Ryanair is in trouble.
K.
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ole Abi
Abi Bray
Abi Bray is a young college student who lives in the United States. The major she is studying is English, and so that she could help pay for some of the expenses of schooling, she decided to try writing online. Abi has been writing for self-catering-breaks.com, learning about other places and sharing some of her knowledge with others through her travel writing. She loves writing news for now, but hopes to become a popular novelist after graduating.
Abi Bray is a young college student who lives in the United States. The major she is studying is English, and so that she could help pay for some of the expenses of schooling, she decided to try writing online. Abi has been writing for self-catering-breaks.com, learning about other places and sharing some of her knowledge with others through her travel writing. She loves writing news for now, but hopes to become a popular novelist after graduating.
From the same journalists: Ryanair Flight Makes Emergency Landing | Self-Catering-Breaks News
Last edited by postman23; 24th Nov 2009 at 19:10.
but hopes to become a popular novelist
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No meat without source.
Forgive me.
The same story repeated by John Morgan, Abi Bray, Katie Davies and Martin Fellowes. Journalists all. Can't say whether they're all interested in novels, though. You'd need to ask them.
As to the subject at hand?
The same story repeated by John Morgan, Abi Bray, Katie Davies and Martin Fellowes. Journalists all. Can't say whether they're all interested in novels, though. You'd need to ask them.
As to the subject at hand?
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Leo's Hairy Camel needs some eyewear
Almost seems like someone is trying to sell cheap tickets or make me rent a car on your top journalist list.
Just thought I'd enlarge that for ya there. Working on the audio version, gimme another second.
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And another one from that respectable news organisation. What was that again? Even bad publicity is good or something? Please allow me to do the favour.
All joking aside; if an airline is in dire straits, I can support a business decision like the suggested one more than trying to rape its employees and the industry with let's say asking pilots to pay cash for their resume to get processed.
O’Leary suggested that the weaker demand during the coming winter would force a further reduction in prices of up to 20 per cent, which would result in a loss for the next six months.
Last edited by postman23; 24th Nov 2009 at 19:44.
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Don't suppose you'd shoot this messenger too, would you? Once again, emphasis is mine...though it were needed!
A group of 66 Aer Lingus pilots are earning almost €20m a year, an average of €300,000 each in salaries and financial perks. They are also entitled to a “gold-plated” pension fund, to which the company is contributing 21% of salary each year.
Last week, Aer Lingus revealed losses of €93m for the first six months of this year and announced its intention to cut salaries. An internal committee of board directors, comprising Colm Barrington, the group’s chairman, businessman Leslie Buckley, and Danuta Gray, the chief executive of O2, have identified long-haul wages, terms and conditions as a key area in which savings can be made.
The high-earning pilots fly on average 600 hours a year. This compares with close to the legal maximum of 900 hours worked by most Ryanair pilots, who earn an average of €150,000 a year.
The former state airline has achieved savings in pay and conditions for short-haul pilots, but has not tackled long-haul operations, where expensive work practices have become embedded.
These include:
All pilots and cabin crew flying transAtlantic are given a €160 a day cash allowance. No receipts are required;
Pilots and cabin crew staying over in American cities are put in luxury hotels. In Chicago, they stay at The Drake, a top hotel which has hosted Princess Diana and Frank Sinatra. In other cities they stay in four-star hotels, including the Hyatt in San Francisco, the Marriott in New York and the Sheraton in Boston;
Long-haul pilots who work more than 590 hours a year are paid a performance premium on top of their salaries;
A seniority list enforced by trade unions ensures that the company cannot switch younger, less expensive pilots onto long-haul routes. The longest-serving pilots are on the best-paid routes;
Rostering practices on long-haul flights make it almost impossible for the airline to require pilots to work for more than 600 hours.
The Aer Lingus cost-cutting review will seek up to 500 redundancies and double-digit wage cuts across the group. It will particularly try to reduce costs among its 590 long- and short-haul pilots.
The company wants to renegotiate the 21% contribution requirement to the pension fund to which pilots themselves are required to put only 9%. For a pilot on a basic salary of €250,000, the pension contribution amounts to another €52,500 per annum.
The airline is also hoping to cut down on other minor costs including a dry-cleaning allowance for pilots’ uniforms.
The Irish Pilots Association, which represents pilots in Aer Lingus, is expected to fight any attempt to cut pay or terms and conditions for long-haul staff.
Last week, a group of four pilots began a High Court action against the airline for failing to pay an increment due earlier this year.
This is worth an extra “couple of hundred euros a month” to the pilots.
Evan Cullen, a pilot and a trade union representative at the airline, said the court case prevented him from commenting about pilot salaries. Aer Lingus also declined to comment.
The company’s cash reserves decreased by €400m over the past 12 months, reducing them to €439m. A new chief executive, Christoph Mueller, starts on Tuesday. He has been given a mandate to reduce costs and reform working practices.
The pilots believe that they concluded a deal in 2008 which meant that, in return for some reforms, they would not be subjected by the company to any further cost-saving initiatives until 2011.
Aer Lingus pilots are nursing heavy losses from a €20m investment they made in the company’s shares shortly after Ryanair made its first hostile takeover approach for the company in 2006. The pilots purchased stock in the airline at up to €3 per share. These are now trading at €0.53, leaving the 500 pilots who bought shares nursing average losses of €40,000 each.
Aer Lingus, which is losing heavily on some long-haul routes, said last week it might scrap its Shannon-New York service if it cannot make the route profitable.
Last week, Aer Lingus revealed losses of €93m for the first six months of this year and announced its intention to cut salaries. An internal committee of board directors, comprising Colm Barrington, the group’s chairman, businessman Leslie Buckley, and Danuta Gray, the chief executive of O2, have identified long-haul wages, terms and conditions as a key area in which savings can be made.
The high-earning pilots fly on average 600 hours a year. This compares with close to the legal maximum of 900 hours worked by most Ryanair pilots, who earn an average of €150,000 a year.
The former state airline has achieved savings in pay and conditions for short-haul pilots, but has not tackled long-haul operations, where expensive work practices have become embedded.
These include:
All pilots and cabin crew flying transAtlantic are given a €160 a day cash allowance. No receipts are required;
Pilots and cabin crew staying over in American cities are put in luxury hotels. In Chicago, they stay at The Drake, a top hotel which has hosted Princess Diana and Frank Sinatra. In other cities they stay in four-star hotels, including the Hyatt in San Francisco, the Marriott in New York and the Sheraton in Boston;
Long-haul pilots who work more than 590 hours a year are paid a performance premium on top of their salaries;
A seniority list enforced by trade unions ensures that the company cannot switch younger, less expensive pilots onto long-haul routes. The longest-serving pilots are on the best-paid routes;
Rostering practices on long-haul flights make it almost impossible for the airline to require pilots to work for more than 600 hours.
The Aer Lingus cost-cutting review will seek up to 500 redundancies and double-digit wage cuts across the group. It will particularly try to reduce costs among its 590 long- and short-haul pilots.
The company wants to renegotiate the 21% contribution requirement to the pension fund to which pilots themselves are required to put only 9%. For a pilot on a basic salary of €250,000, the pension contribution amounts to another €52,500 per annum.
The airline is also hoping to cut down on other minor costs including a dry-cleaning allowance for pilots’ uniforms.
The Irish Pilots Association, which represents pilots in Aer Lingus, is expected to fight any attempt to cut pay or terms and conditions for long-haul staff.
Last week, a group of four pilots began a High Court action against the airline for failing to pay an increment due earlier this year.
This is worth an extra “couple of hundred euros a month” to the pilots.
Evan Cullen, a pilot and a trade union representative at the airline, said the court case prevented him from commenting about pilot salaries. Aer Lingus also declined to comment.
The company’s cash reserves decreased by €400m over the past 12 months, reducing them to €439m. A new chief executive, Christoph Mueller, starts on Tuesday. He has been given a mandate to reduce costs and reform working practices.
The pilots believe that they concluded a deal in 2008 which meant that, in return for some reforms, they would not be subjected by the company to any further cost-saving initiatives until 2011.
Aer Lingus pilots are nursing heavy losses from a €20m investment they made in the company’s shares shortly after Ryanair made its first hostile takeover approach for the company in 2006. The pilots purchased stock in the airline at up to €3 per share. These are now trading at €0.53, leaving the 500 pilots who bought shares nursing average losses of €40,000 each.
Aer Lingus, which is losing heavily on some long-haul routes, said last week it might scrap its Shannon-New York service if it cannot make the route profitable.
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Eeehhh mate......,
I was kidding about the glasses and all but the article that you now quote does not reveal any details on Aer Lingus moving out of the country. Maybe a quick pitstop at the local optician's could be of help?
Personally, I don't believe in violence and therefore don't shoot any messengers. Reverse logic would imply me having blown the headmaster of Skank Airways out of the water a long, long time ago, worst news since uniform hats. Again working my funny side here (thought I'd say that up front this time).
I was kidding about the glasses and all but the article that you now quote does not reveal any details on Aer Lingus moving out of the country. Maybe a quick pitstop at the local optician's could be of help?
Personally, I don't believe in violence and therefore don't shoot any messengers. Reverse logic would imply me having blown the headmaster of Skank Airways out of the water a long, long time ago
, worst news since uniform hats. Again working my funny side here (thought I'd say that up front this time).
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From the original post...
Therefore, short-haul pilots at Ryanair earn up to €250,000. Is that correct or not? And how many Ryanair pilots earn that much money?
Leo's backtrack is basically what has already been stated by someone else...
Was your original 'journalist' now wrong? Has another journalist come to your rescue?
So this is an article from September? It's nearly December old bean, do try to keep up. Then again I'm impressed your dentist has material that recent. You must have lovely gums. No evidence of teeth, though, sadly.
Aer Lingus to pull out of Dublin for ever? Ryanair pull out of airports all the time. What's the big deal?
Other than seeking attention, which I'm sorry I gave you and promise not to do again, what exactly are you trying to achieve, Mr Camel? All you've done is come across as smug and clueless in equal measure and seemingly without any point.
Funny old place, the world, eh?
long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well. At Ryanair by comparison, the pilots earn half as much.
Leo's backtrack is basically what has already been stated by someone else...
66 Aer Lingus pilots are earning almost €20m a year, an average of €300,000
A new chief executive, Christoph Mueller, starts on Tuesday.
Aer Lingus to pull out of Dublin for ever? Ryanair pull out of airports all the time. What's the big deal?
Other than seeking attention, which I'm sorry I gave you and promise not to do again, what exactly are you trying to achieve, Mr Camel? All you've done is come across as smug and clueless in equal measure and seemingly without any point.
Funny old place, the world, eh?
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Why this Hairey chap has anything to do with aviation given his pathological distaste for pilots, I struggle to understand. Why not get involved in something where you can demonstrate a mutual respect for your fellow employees. The stress and obvious insecurity would no doubt be far more manageable. Airlines come and go, the market will decide on Aer Lingus not someones personal hate campaign.
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"66 Aer Lingus pilots are earning almost €20m a year, an average of €300,000"
€300,000 at today's exchange rate is $450,000
"its long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well."
So he's not that far off the mark to be fair. Assuming the above is true, and as an Irish tax-payer, I don't think I would be alone in saying that it's time to get rid of Aer Lingus - it's gone, they've f*cked it, time to start over.
Farrell
€300,000 at today's exchange rate is $450,000
"its long-haul pilots, who earn up to $500,000 per year and benefit from incredible pension plans as well."
So he's not that far off the mark to be fair. Assuming the above is true, and as an Irish tax-payer, I don't think I would be alone in saying that it's time to get rid of Aer Lingus - it's gone, they've f*cked it, time to start over.
Farrell
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They have pretty much put their toe into the "Euro water" already with their mini hub in Gatwick as well as their potential "Spanish Adventure."
There seems to be a bit of MOL in their recent moves.
There seems to be a bit of MOL in their recent moves.
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Very convincing credentials indeed....
From the same journalists: Ryanair Flight Makes Emergency Landing | Self-Catering-Breaks News
From the same journalists: Ryanair Flight Makes Emergency Landing | Self-Catering-Breaks News
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The high-earning pilots fly on average 600 hours a year. This compares with close to the legal maximum of 900 hours worked by most Ryanair pilots, who earn an average of €150,000 a year.
